Another femicide

[XChrome]

This is why people who bleat about men being killed more often and think it's a gotcha should just pipe down.
Men are not being killed simply because they are men. Yes, it does make an difference if somebody is killed because he got in a bar fight, had sex with somebody else's wife (or disrespected another man in some other way) was shot in gang warfare or killed in a robbery. Those are the typical reasons men get killed. These are terrible and tragic crimes, but they are not hate crimes. Hate crimes are considered to be more heinous than other crimes. We are right to be especially horrified by murder motivated by hatred based on sex, race, sexual orientation or whatever.
So people need to stop making this false comparison. The average man will never have cause to fear that he will be murdered.

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/ottawa-police-deem-death-of-a-woman-in-south-end-park-a-femicide-1.7087057

I think sometimes it suits the official agenda to push the blame onto 'men' as a group if the alternative is to accept failings in the system, and by embracing this we are in some ways enabling this lack of accountability. It's perhaps specific groups of men throwing the wider group of men under the bus to an extent. Saving their own skins by 'sharing' the blame with the rest of their demographic, most of whom are innocent.

Although of course the average copper on the streets is pretty much powerless to change this and lack of resources is also undoubtedly an issue.

I know loads of men who've been beaten up but not a single woman that's been murdered.

That's a ridiculous comparison.

Look around you, 1 in 4 of the woman you see will have been violently assaulted by a male they know.

Which 'specific group of men' do you think are violent to women? How can we tell?

maybe it's not 80%. impossible to know exactly. but it is a valid strategy according to available data. not to have a partner or a husband is possible. male friends also. acquaintances, coworkers, neighbors less so but it can be done to some degree.
your original claim was: "Women don't have equivalent ways to limit their vulnerability". they do and it's not perfect just like proposed strategy for men is not perfect.

Can we please have a thread focusing on women and specifically on femicide. This is the Feminism section of a site dominated by women and still almost all the discussion is about men rather than women. I acknowledge the OP's (very brief) diversion but it is a horrific reflection of our society that on a Feminist board on a women's site when a poster raises VAWG people just want to talk about men. We are utterly invisible even to ourselves

They are not equivalent. Men can have relationships without much risk. They can, as a general rule, go to isolated areas, out at night alone, and travel alone. They can take any job they are qualified for without the risk of being harassed. They are less likely to be violently attacked by friends, relatives, co-workers or neighbours, so they can have a normal life without the same level of risk. The stats show that attacks on men are most likely to come from strangers, or at least, people the victim does not know well. For example, in my country, 79% of attacks on men come from outside their families as opposed to 61% for women. Obviously, it's much easier to avoid interaction with strangers than it is to avoid interaction with family, friends, co-workers and neighbours, and to do so does not require you to give up on living a normal life. Humans are social animals and we need other people, particularly our families. So to live a healthy, happy life as a woman obviously requires accepting a higher risk. Most women want to have relationships with men, for example. They want friendships with both sexes. They want to be able to go where they like, when they like. They want to be able to interact with family, co-workers and neighbours. What kind of life is it of you can't do those things? It's a pretty grim one by any standard.
So we do those things and accept the risk.
Therefore, they are not equivalent at all.

I agree. I do take the blame for mentioning men in the OP, but that's been dealt with and enough is enough. So please feel free to post any stories you have about VAW. The solution is to drown the whataboutmen stuff out with a lot of posts about women.

Domestic violence and femicide is on a frightening rise in Israel;

www.timesofisrael.com/domestic-violence-rates-nearly-doubled-since-oct-7-eight-women-were-murdered-in-2024/

Study showing a rise in femicides in Mexico, which has one of the highest femicide rates in the world;

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10745190/

This article underscores what I have been saying about the risks women must take;

www.image.ie/agenda/awareness-about-violence-against-women-just-isnt-enough-897217

Quote;
"Don’t walk with your earphones in. Put your keys in between your fingers. Plan your route. Make sure there are people around you at all times. Don’t wear such a short dress. Cover up. Don’t tempt. Don’t drink too much. Stay alert. Share your location with friends. Learn self-defence. Do you want to go for a run? Well, with the darker evenings, you only have the hours between 9am and 5pm to move around society freely. Once the sun sets you should stay inside. Is there anything else in your handbag you could use as a weapon?

These thoughts infiltrate the minds of women every single day, all over the world. It’s a devastating realisation that we can never free ourselves from. Just as we think the world can become a little safer, our fantasy is shattered as another attack is reported or a woman in our lives shares yet another tale of torment."

Those are just the risks we have to live with regarding stranger attacks. Since most attacks come from those known to us, it is impossible to live a normal life and be assured that you will be safe, unless you practice a lot of denial. But even then, does the woman not feel it subconsciously, and isn't the denial designed to keep it from her conscious awareness?

You know loads of women who’ve been beaten up, (and raped and other sexual assaults) too.

Most crimes against women aren’t reported.
Women see a crime coming for them and can’t do a damn thing about it. Holly tried to end a relationship with a controlling boy. Her friend was concerned enough to follow her. She was killed and he seriously injured.
When you see the red flag but are helpless to avoid it- that’s terrifying and enraging.

Violent men are the group that are violent to women. You can often get an idea if an individual is violent. But of course not always.

Any man could be concealing violent tendencies. Any nurse could be a Lucy Letsby. Any babysitter could murder your children. Tomorrow could be the day that somebody crashes into you and kills you despite your driving being perfect (much more likely than any of the above). You could be the victim of a terrorist bombing at the theatre (modern day suffagettes loool), you could die from a congenital heart defect you didn't know you had because you never had reason to check.

Even if men are way more violent we still don't know who the violent women are so we can't even trust our own sex.

Where does it stop?

Those are just the risks we have to live with regarding stranger attacks. Since most attacks come from those known to us, it is impossible to live a normal life and be assured that you will be safe, unless you practice a lot of denial. But even then, does the woman not feel it subconsciously, and isn't the denial designed to keep it from her conscious awareness?

Most women don't think like this. Trust me. It's bordering on an anxiety disorder.

OK, I don't really want to derail the thread

11 posts later and that's all you've done @SidhuVicious

12 now

Well, given the number of replies it seems people are happy to continue the discussion. Why don't you post about what you'd like to discuss and maybe other posters will respond.

I must say I see this a lot in the feminism section though. Poster makes a controversial statement about something, doesn't like it when some people don't agree, and then proceeds to try and shut down the discourse they don't like/gatekeep the thread.

How do you think it would go if somebody made a thread about men being stabbed and ended it with the statement 'the average woman will never have cause to fear that she will be murdered'.

Do you think people would just keep talking about men and not challenge the statement? Would they fuck.

I don't trust your word on that, no. You are not the brand ambassador for women.
Moreover, that's a bandwagon fallacy. Even if what you said had a basis in fact, it would not establish that such a feeling was more rational.

IKR. 🥱

It wasn't feminists who taught me this, it was men. From 11 years old, being harassed on the street. Repeatedly for decades. Those men meant to be threatening. Why don't you believe them?

Are you still going with your minimising of the general violence against women @SidhuVicious ? Give it a break. Your derailing "What about t'menz?" is distasteful, to say the least.

The research I have found suggests that women who have been sexually assaulted or repeatedly harassed perceive the risk of male violence as being higher, and rightly so. It's a response to experience, so the kind of claims (about the perception of risk of male violence being a sign of mental health problems) which Sidhu made are gaslighty bullshit.

I think a woman who has not been harassed, assaulted or had what seemed to be an attempt at trying out an assault made (being followed, for example, in hopes of getting her alone in a deserted area) has been extremely lucky and has probably led a fairly sheltered life.
I have been very obviously followed with predatory intent many times. I've had some narrow escapes where only my hypervigilance saved me. It was only very obvious to me because I know it's out there and expect it. If you don't learn to expect such things, you're going to be more vulnerable to attack. I suspect some women may be so used to living in a state of hypervigilance that they don't even realize it's what's keeping them safe. They tell themselves that the men around them are all lovely and would never dream of harming a woman, but the truth is they do avoid being alone with men they don't know well and avoid isolated areas where screams for help could not be heard.

The number of men who have tried to take advantage- pressured and assaulted and on occasion raped- as opposed to those who haven’t. Honestly, it’s not good. Like, really bad, statistically speaking.

I believe some women have effective shark cages- strategies and qualities they absorbed in their strong, healthy families- that leave them better protected. Those women may not notice the predatory nature of such a large proportion of men. Those of us whose shark cages are a bit gappy, well we really see it. The predators try and try and try again. We use hyper vigilance as our protection. But we see it. And fuck me, it’s everywhere.

There are multiple cases where women have been victimised several times on the same night, by different men. The poor child murdered by her brother and assaulted by the man who found her body. The hotel room, where men invited random men in the corridor to join in.

That wouldn’t happen unless a significant portion of men were likeminded.

And as for Sidhu’s experience with police statistics- well we know how unrepresentative they are. It’s absolutely irrelevant to the reality of women’s experience of male violence.

The case of Gisele Pelicon alone tells you everything you need to know about what men are capable of.
This was a staggering % of the men in that town who raped her, and that's not counting the ones who must have enabled it when they were invited to take part, turned the invitation down but still didn't report it.
You have to be optimistic to even think that surely some of them must have turned it down. ☹️

If you just want to be able to slag off men as a group and not have anybody question it then why not just say so?