Will the world ever be safer for girls and women?

[CactusSammy]

I haven't posted before, but I absolutely despair at the state of men, and worry for the future of girls and women.

Maybe I'm overreacting, but I'm so sick of the way men behave towards us, without any concept of the distress their actions cause. My teenage daughter has just started college, and gets the train there. The college have called me today, saying that she is very upset as she saw two men filming her at the train station.

For context, she was wearing jeans, trainers, and a non revealing top (not that it would make it ok, whatever she was wearing). The men were approx mid 20s.

I thought men my age were bad, but it seems the young ones aren't any better. I know it's not all men, but it really takes the piss when a young girl can't even go to college without being harassed, and made to feel scared, vulnerable, and intimidated.

I know its just some twats at the train station, but its really upsetting for a young girl. When she was 14 I let her walk to the corner shop five minutes away with her friend, and on the way back two grown men in a van shouted 'show us your tits' at them. What the hell is wrong with men?

Is the world ever going to be safer for women and girls? Sadly, as long as there are men around, I really don't think so.

If there ever come a time when there us a radical and permanent shift in the male psyche, then maybe. Otherwise, no.

I don't think the world will ever be safe for women and girls. As long as men are bigger and stronger than us, and they desire us sexually very strongly it seems, and at the same time they resent the fact we hold this sexual power over them. Even though we don't really know it or think about it in those terms. I certainly don't think I hold power over men.

The bad ones will use that superior strength or the threat of it, to get what they want from us.

It's just the way it is. At least we have laws to protect us and society is basically pretty decent. Imagine being a woman a few hundred years ago.

It’s not just women and girls.

A goat was recently ‘raped to death’. As was a monitor lizard.

Basically anything that men can overpower.

You're not overreacting, and no, the world will never be safe for us.
Appalling, but true.
As to whether it will be safer than it is now, I tend to doubt that as well. I think men have evolved as far as they are willing and are digging their heels in to resist changing.

As to whether it will be safer than it is now, I tend to doubt that as well. I think men have evolved as far as they are willing and are digging their heels in to resist changing.

I agree. I think what we have, is about as good as it gets.

Sad to say I agree with the other posters.I felt safer in my 20s than I do now in my 50s.

The problem isn't men, it's systemic misogyny. At every level of society women and girls are oppressed and unless that changes the rest is sticking plaster.

Conservative estimates are one in four women will experience abuse and one in three, sexual assault. There's no penalty for rape, so it's a free for all - our justice system fails women.

Degrading and violent porn has infiltrated society so much so that girls and women are harmed.

I don't think it will, for all the reasons cited above. We just always need to be looking out for ourselves, and each other. I have drilled that into my daughters always, but also my son, because men can be brutal to other men too.

Having said that, I've now reached my 60s and I had Saturday/holiday jobs from the ages of 15-21. I can barely remember now how many men sexually assaulted me (not in a major way thankfully but still), thinking it was ok for them to feel me up and comment on my body. I was also assaulted on the street at 6pm on a sunny Saturday night, by a complete stranger, on my way to post some letters.

These men were all way older than me, married, with children. I'm not traumatised or anything, not at all, but still remain horrified that these men, some of them apparent pillars of the community, thought it was ok to molest a schoolgirl. I did tell my parents, who were horrified too, but felt that if I said anything, I'd get blamed for leading them on. Particularly the local politician/dignitary, who was old enough to be my father. They were probably right.

I'd like to think that we live in a culture now where this predatory behaviour is unacceptable in a way it wasn't in the late 1970s and 80s. Thankfully it's been something my own daughters haven't had to face. But I know it's still there, lurking in the shadows, and worse, and that there are unfortunately some men capable of anything, given the opportunity.

I feel safer now, because elderly me would knee them in the balls, and scream like fuck! Or slap them in the face! 16 year old me put up with a service engineer referring to my breasts as Pinky and Perky, and copping a feel, because I was too polite!! I so wish I could go back and avenge the young me actually!

Yes, the porn thing is so much more an issue than it was 40 years ago, when it was less extreme, and could only be accessed from the 'top shelf'!

It's strange the way things have turned out. As far as I'm concerned, things are better now. Sexual harassment and assault used to be ubiquitous.

Men are no longer given free reign in the sense that we now protect children and things like domestic abuse are taken more seriously.
Women have more financial independence and divorce is no longer stigmatized.

However the situation with porn and issues relating to the internet are out of control. Predators are grooming children over social media, they can swap images and videos and porn has taken over; it's like a juggernaut.

Fetishes and kinks are mainstream and no one is doing anything to stop it. They've only just stopped the rough sex defence.

Oh god yes, things are definitely better now! When I was in my teens/early 20s, nobody would have taken you seriously, and sadly my parents were probably right when they said that I'd probably have been blamed for leading them on. My mum and dad were great, and very supportive. We had a close relationship right until they died, but sometimes I think, why did they even let me go back to face into that again? Why didn't my dad knock ten colours of shit out of these men? But I know times were very different, and it is what it is. At least I was always fully clothed.

You're right though - it's not Joe in the next street who's a bit handsy you need to worry about - it's these insidious creeps grooming online and ordinary kids thinking porn is real-life.

Parents were weird in those times. For example Sam Fox's mum sent off her lingerie shots for her to become a topless model at 16. It wasn't unusual for 16 year olds to be on Page 3.

Young teenagers had much older boyfriends and that was accepted. Men would regularly sexually harass girls on their way to school. You were blamed for being raped or hit. Nagging was used as a defence for homicide. Child sexual abuse survivors were blamed for leading men on.

I was watching a programme that was popular in the 80s and the man was very much the head of the household, everyone took his word as final and did what he said. That kind of attitude was common.

My own parents had an inappropriately large age gap. They loved the bones of each other until they were separated by death, so it worked out for them, and we didn't think a lot about it, but my mum said she would never let any of us do the same.

Mandy Smith and Bill Wyman were just off the scale! Yet he never was prosecuted! And if I remember correctly, her mother encouraged it?

The problem is absolutely men.

I wasn't talking about large age gaps, I was talking about young teenagers and grown men.

Yes I remember Smith and Wyman. He said she had the face of a child but the body of a woman. She was 13 when they met and the police didn't do anything. Then again the police didn't do anything about Savile.

Her mother did encourage it and married his son, I think. However, at the time we got away with far more. I was going to pubs from the age of 13 and Mandy Smith was clubbing in the West End.

The only people who can improve women's situation are men

It's their responsibility

No. It won't.

I’m surprised you got a phonecall from the college to be honest. I can’t even imagine you getting a phonecall from highschool.

@username3678 Whether we like it or not, it was also legal. It was the Sexual Offences Act 2003 that raised the age of consent for such things from 16 to 18. Quite right too. Wasn't it Harriet Harmen who was behind that change? In terms of UK history, it isn't that long ago that it was legal for a 13 year old girl to be a prostitute in England. So things are getting better, but not all.

The ubiquity of adult material, and particularly children and teenagers ability to access it is problematic. The content also feels like a major problem. Changes may be coming from Texas, by requiring age verification that is effective. Social media can also be a mine field, leading to toxic behaviour from all sides.

@offyoujollywelltrot

I disagree that the problem is men. Isn't the problem rooted in abuse? Both men and women are capable of abuse. In my experience both men and women are capable of, and do inappropriately sexualise others. I've had women sexually assault me, but I'm just supposed to laugh it off? I've had women emotionally abuse me, or does that not count? The experience of the Red Hot Chilli Pipers opened my eyes to this issue and made me ask uncomfortable questions.

@CactusSammy

I'm so sorry that your daughter experienced what she did. I hope that the trauma hasn't damaged her too much. Hopefully, the world will get better, but it feels like we need a paradigm shift at all levels. Less tribalism would be a good start, more focus on responsibilities and an active campaign to teach how not to sexualise would be helpful. Doesn't that need to start at home?

Given it's first few months in power, I don't feel this Labour government will do much, and a shift to the extreme right won't help either.

98% of sexual offenders are men. Not women. Let's not obscure that fact on a women's site.

@DissedOff

The problem is still men.

Thanks for making my point for me. 99% of convicted sexual offenders are men, that doesn't mean that women don't commit sexual offences, just they aren't prosecuted for it. Am I supposed to ignore the woman who've openly groped me in public because they were women? I wonder how many looked up about the experience of the Red Hot Chilli Pipers?

Why isn't it appropriate to discuss the idea that women can be sexually inappropriate too on a feminist website? Isn't the idea to get all of us to look inward and ask 'What can I do better?' None of us can change the world on our own, but if everyone improved themselves, and discussed with friends and family the ways the world can be improve by our actions, wouldn't that be a good start?

The world is not generally unsafe for girls and women because of women, even if there are the rare- very rare- women who assault other women. Nice attempt at a derail.

I looked up the Red Hot Chilli Peppers. I note Kiedis has been accused of sexual assault. Nothing surprising there.

As for the improving oneselves bullshit, I don't need to improve myself. It's men who need to do that.