The term ‘Violence Against Women and Girls’

[GinJarRogers]

Hearing a lot about this on the news today and it’s got my wondering why the term is VAWG and not MALE Violence Against Women and Girls. That’s what we’re talking about isn’t it? So why identify the victims and not the perpetrators?

Calling it male violence makes men uncomfortable.

I'm pretty sure the acronym used to be MVAWG. I wonder why? 🤔 Something something not all men...

It's a bit like how "global warming" was changed to "climate change ". It made a certain group of people feel uncomfortable

Just a thought, maybe it's been changed to take into account all violence against women and girls, including from same sex partners and female relatives in respect of things like fgm and forced marriage.

No. It's more likely that it's to appease the kind of "woman" with a penis who commits violence against women.

So violence due to perps in same sex relationships, other female relatives and added bonus ''lasses" with cocks?

This is ridiculous. Global warming was changed to climate change because the climate is indeed changing but not all parts of the world are getting warmer and more aspects of the climate are changing than just the temperature. The wind, humidity etc. is changing too but the term global warming doesn't get that across.

Who exactly is uncomfortable with the term global warming?

So on a thread about vawg this is what you got angry about? 🤔

Sorry I forgot we can only be angry about one thing at a time.

But yes, on a thread about terminology it's important to correct assumptions like the most important thing about a term is the way it makes people feel and not the fact that it is actually factual.

^ this was my immediate thought as well.

Even though a lot of female on female violence is still the result of existing in a misogynistic and patriarchal society in the first place, women can definitely hurt other women because they are female. So to me that should still be taken into account and therefore the name is appropriate to me. It also includes systemic and institutional violence against women and girls which isn't perpetrated by individuals but structures or groups of people and can still cause massive damage.

I too have wondered why it wasn't MVAWG, but then we know how fragile and precious the manfeels are.

Women have a choice girls don't

But there is also same sex relationships

I was taught by nuns belonging to 'The Sisters of Mercy', females can be vindictive and violent.

FGM is carried out by women.

We don't need to group together every bad thing that happens to every female - the category of men lashing out or using force to control women (MVAWG) can be a category in itself. How does grouping it with FGM help?

If we actually want to improve things, you have to break them down, understand what's going on and try to make appropriate changes. The interventions needed to reduce FGM are different (not lesser) than those to stop men beating the shit out of women.

It's like trying to group all illnesses together and hoping one pill will cure them all - the more differentiation, the better.

@GinJarRogers Then why not just go a step further and just call it "male violence"? Given that virtually all violent crime is carried out by men.

Because general male violence is not what the conversation is about. It is very specifically male violence against women and girls, hence the shortened term “Violence against women and girls”. Male violence is a related, important, but different issue.

I don't understand why it's not VAWC (Violence Against Women and Children). Especially as it's commonly DV situations - and often children are affected by that, boys as well as girls.

I think there are still a lot of issues female children have that male children don't to the same extent. Eg forced marriage, sexual assault and rape, stalking and harassment, spiking then there's more systemic violence like inadequacy in maternity and healthcare services etc.

@GinJarRogers Why is general male violence outside the scope of the discussion, but violence perpetrated by women is not?

Weird comment. First of all, forced marriage is perpetrated by families, not men specifically. Regarding issues like rape, stalking, and spiking, clearly they do impact boys and men; the most prolific rapist in British legal history only spiked and raped men.

I haven’t said that violence perpetrated by women is within the scope of discussion. Female violence is very much outside a conversation about male violence against women and girls. Again, an important issue and worth debating but not within the parameters of a discussion about male violence against women and girls.
I suppose my original question is rhetorical, we all know why we don’t call it male violence against women and girls, and that is to protect the feelings of the perpetrating group.

@GinJarRogers I haven’t said that violence perpetrated by women is within the scope of discussion. Female violence is very much outside a conversation about male violence against women and girls. Again, an important issue and worth debating but not within the parameters of a discussion about male violence against women and girls

Hmm yes, it seems I misworded my question, sorry. There are any number of ways you can split, or group together, the issue of violence, so what I'm asking is, why specifically male violence against women and girls? And why group together all violence against women and girls, rather than splitting out very different manifestations of violence?

I suppose my original question is rhetorical, we all know why we don’t call it male violence against women and girls, and that is to protect the feelings of the perpetrating group.

Well I suggested "male violence," which puts all of the emphasis solely on the perpetrators, yet, you objected to that.

@shuggles I didn't say these issues ONLY affect females I said that they affect females to a greater extent. And females are more likely to be affected by sexual assault and rape.

I know forced marriage is perpetrated by families.. I'm not sure why you are pointing that out to me... in my opinion this is why violence against women and girls is more appropriate than male violence against women and girls or violence against women and children which is the point I was making. My point was that women and girls are more likely to experience certain types of harm than men or boys and that should be acknowledged.

I'm surprised it needs spelling out but lumping all violence together is hardly helpful in addressing the causes and effectively combatting. Yes you could call it “male violence” or go one further and just “violence” but there specific cultural/societal factors that feed into male violence against women and girls. Breaking it down into specifics enables us to address specific causes.

If you call it MVAWG then a certain group of people (men and women) derail the focus onto NAMALT. Then you get the whatabouttery which derails the focus further. And on and on. Yes it’s annoying and frustrating but we’ve seen the above happen over and over again on MN alone around this topic.