The Rest is Politics on Women

[Superlambaanana]

Did anyone else listen to the recent episode when Rory and Alastair discussed the trans issue. They've been avoiding the issue for ages - for reasons which became obvious when they did discuss it. They are both obviously terrified of the trans lobby.

They seemed to both agree (as they usually do despite the format supposedly being about opposing views aired respectfully). And their view is that we must all be kind. But that they didn't feel it was their place to talk about the issue in depth because they're not women. Not being politicians, Afghans, Israeli, American, etc etc doesn't seem to stop them talking about other political issues. But they can't talk about women's rights because they aren't women.

I suspect the real reason is because they are both pro trans and somewhat anti women - ie they like to think they are feminists but actually prefer women to stay in traditional roles.

I must say Alastair Campbell particularly is irking me more and more. I hadn't really formed much of a view about him before but he is very old fashioned and is still keen on spinning everything to strengthen his own positions rather than listening to any other opinions or accepting he is sometimes just wrong about things.

As a slight aside, they're both very weak on Northern Ireland too. Routinely referring to 'Ireland' when they mean Northern Ireland. Alastair Campbell went so far the other day to say the DUP were blockers to peace in NI. I have no time for the DUP's puritanical, anti women, dark age politics, but nevertheless, I think Sinn Fein and the IRA were a much bigger 'blocker to peace', having carried out a vicious, decades long bombing campaign. Reductionist maybe, but I think increasingly TRIP is showing itself as one dimensionally biased and unable to absorb opposing arguments or ideas.

I do still listen and realise I could just turn off!

I was very disappointed - particularly in Rory Stewart over this. I thought he was more principled and he is certainly intelligent plus he used to be MP for a rural farming community. I thought they were avoiding it because they were on the side of women but it seems not. Pathetic.

Very impressed with James Mitchinson the editor of the Yorkshire Post who has, admittedly only recently, come down firmly on the side of women's rights

Your suspicions aren't facts.

I'll think you'll find that 'womens issues ' aren't really on many men's radars. They are seen as secondary to more important stuff. It's not seen as a human rights issue, which it should be, and one that affects everyone, but a fringe issue.

They are happy to talk about the 'big' things like foreign policy because they know where they are.

During the height of this bullshit, I saw three men in wigs on a panel debating women's sports. Seems like men are the experts under some circumstances.

@Mytholmroyd yes I had expected Rory Stewart at least to have a more thoughtful opinion. I fully expected him to come down in the middle and try to pander to both sides, which he did, but it was obvious he thinks women should give way to trans women (men). So I was disappointed too.

The trans lobby has certainly succeeded in intimidating people to prevent the issue from being properly debated.

As @cupcaske123 says, men (including trans women) have worked hard to ensure women raising issues about women's safety, healthcare and fundamental right to exist are at best dismissed or treated as silly fringe ideas, and at worst shut down as bigotry and hatred.

My existence as a woman is a simple fact. That is not bigoted or hateful. Those who want to trample the rights of women are the bigoted and hateful ones. But in common with a lot of men, they are keen to gaslight and project their own failings on the group they so despise.

I think (hope) that as more court cases and prosecutions expose the reality of what they support for women and children the ideological position will just become untenable as it did for the SNP and Greens in Scotland. It's all very well believing everyone is harmless but it is not and never will be the case.

They clearly didn't think it through, hence Alistair trotting out the old 'well you have a gender neutral toilet in your house so what's all the fuss about' gem. Most men just don't understand what women cope with on a daily basis to go about their lives.

There are some inspired appointments to the cabinet but I am concerned at the appointment of Lisa Nandy but maybe this is just going to force the issue as it did with Nicola Sturgeon. 🤞

hence Alistair trotting out the old 'well you have a gender neutral toilet in your house so what's all the fuss about

Ridiculous comment but that's male privilege for you. He's obviously never felt threatened by anyone whilst in a vulnerable situation.

I have stopped listening to their podcast since this issue was discussed. I have lost all respect for them both. A pair of cowards and if that is the depth of AC’s understanding on the issue of men using women’s public toilets it makes me doubt his cognitive ability to reason on anything else.

Also many people I know don't have gender neutral bathrooms at home - they have one bathroom for her and a separate one for him.

Quite aside from all of the personal safety issues with shared bathrooms, places where men urinate always stink to high heaven.

Men's inability to accurately direct their urine into a toilet bowl is so revolting and hardly ever discussed because unfortunately women just get on with wiping it up, moping the floors regularly and repainting radiators located beside the loo. 🤮

I haven't stopped listening yet, but I feel exactly the same way as you.

I've stopped listening too.

I emailed them a few months ago when they touched on this subject and basically dismissed concerns as the frothing of a few bigots (or words to that effect). I couldn't believe the shallow response and lack of any kind of curious engagement, or the characterisation of those who express concerns as right-wing scaremongers.

I was so disappointed (although I feel that about so many people I used to respect these days) and I can't listen to either of them now.

*Quite aside from all of the personal safety issues with shared bathrooms, places where men urinate always stink to high heaven.

Men's inability to accurately direct their urine into a toilet bowl is so revolting and hardly ever discussed because unfortunately women just get on with wiping it up, moping the floors regularly and repainting radiators located beside the loo. 🤮*

Not true in my experience (Father, DH, DS etc.) and I fear reduces this serious (and sometimes terrifying) issue to a lesser level than it deserves.

yes I had expected Rory Stewart at least to have a more thoughtful opinion.

The thing is, even for thoughtful people, you have to actually think about the issue. That sounds flippant but I genuinely think many people cannot actively engage because they have so little comprehension of what the issues might actually be for women. I don't really see evidence of them listening to women and not just thinking "well I, a man, can't see any problem so what are they moaning about?"

The amount of men I've heard deny street harassment. They haven't got a clue and reduce women's experiences to nagging and hysteria.

@LocalHobo
"Not true in my experience (Father, DH, DS etc.) and I fear reduces this serious (and sometimes terrifying) issue to a lesser level than it deserves."

Yes dear, I'm sure your dear Nigel doesn't do it. But please save your chastising of other women for somewhere other than the feminist discussion section of a women's forum. In other words, piss off.

The reality is that women have been quietly cleaning up all sorts of problems caused by men for centuries and none of them is too trivial to mention. If we dismiss any of it we are allowing men to continue to claim they don't cause problems, women "like doing the cleaning or x/ y/ z because they never complain" and casting any women who buck the trend by speaking out as "hysterical".

I have to admit I didn't really think about this issue deeply myself as a girl/young woman - I just accepted that the leering and propositioning, what did I expect if I got the last bus/walked home, not getting a job because I might get pregnant/getting sacked because I was pregnant etc was how it was.

Then I started to see the injustice as a young mother raising girls and I thought we were making things better. But nothing has opened my eyes like this changing of the meaning of/removing the word women has over the last ~ten years or so - the reality of how little men/society respect women and girls and their safety and dignity or how little they even attempt to listen and understand has been truly shocking.

And that it was educated men and women in positions of power who were largely pushing it. I have not met one working class man who agrees or supports this movement in real life.

I said on here several years ago that the crime of indecent exposure would become unprosecutable and was jeered at by some. But that has essentially come to pass. We seem to have lost our collective minds over what is decent and safe.

@Mytholmroyd 100% agree. Men's sexual desires have been allowed to emerge uncensored and run amok thanks to the porn saturated internet. If it turns a man on, it needs to be accepted regardless of how it impacts anyone else. Unfortunately TRIP is now another mainstream platform endorsing this insanity and expecting women to just put up with it and 'be kind' in the face of our own repression.

Doesn't surprise me at all. Read how much women had to campaign to get rape recognised in marriage.
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2021/6/15/the-long-road-to-criminalising-rape-within-marriage

@cupcaske123 God I know. Jeffrey Donaldson (former leader of the DUP political party in Northern Ireland and puritanical christian) is accused of historical sexual offences -raping children - and he has been charged under the 1861 Offences Against the Person Act. The original Act gave sentencing guidance for men who 'had carnal knowledge' of girls up to age 12. Then a lighter tariff for raping girls aged 12 to 13. Seemed to be ok to do whatever you liked once the child reached age 13. I'm afraid the older I get and the more I learn about them, the more men disgust me.

I can't listen to Alistair Campbell and you're right TRIP is just an echo chamber full of smug self-approbation - disappointed with Rory Steward, didn't expect much from AC anyway

IIRC they have discussed this issue before in a similarly ridiculous way. I turned it off after this recent discussion and haven't listened since. It's one of those issues where for me, once I've heard someone express these type of "be kind" nonsense views, I can't really have respect for anything else they think as I sort of automatically regard them as either a bit dim or cowardly. It's the latter with these two, they just don't want to say anything controversial. Or maybe they genuinely think this and don't care about women. Alistair Campbell says he has been influenced by his daughter's views on this and her view of "feminism".

I far prefer the Rest is History, and when they've discussed this (obviously in a slightly different way) their views have been pleasingly iconoclastic about it.

Just listened to today’s Leading and think we’ve got the answer as to why Alastair has his position on trans rights - he is close friends with Helle Thorning-Schmidt, former Danish PM, who has a trans/gender fluid child (a daughter now identifying as male).

Yes, this is a problem in the Labour Party too, with Stephen Kinnock being her husband. It's difficult to have a policy that doesn't support him.

Listening to the Rest is Politics is similar to pressing a bruise for me.
I can’t bear either of them now.
I used to have a certain respect for both.
They’ve lost me completely on this issue.
I cannot understand why one family member, friend of a friend or constituent has resulted in the loss of critical thinking/ throwing every woman under the bus.
Or perhaps the massive egos of both Rory and Alistair are actually secondary to their lily livers.

Yes I’ve just seen he’s been given a job in the Department of Health. Bodes well…

Agreed.

I don't recognise this stereotype.