I’m a bit lost having a DD

[SickOfThisSht]

Ok that was perhaps a bit of a dramatic title but I’m just lying here tonight looking at DD4 sleeping and wondering how the fck do I protect her?!

She had a birthday party recently and there was a boy who absolutely terrorised everyone. I’ve heard her talk about him in passing usually about him making this or that kid cry, pushing, her or someone else. I passed it off as kids being kids. Did an all class invite because I didn’t want to exclude anyone.

Then i saw it at her party and it just hit me with all sorts and guilt at not taking her passing comments more seriously. His mum was right there!! He pushed DD, pulled her, was in her face. Both me and DH had to step in so many times. And his mum was right there watching it all!

Then, I read local news and 3 out of 5 locally convicted people are men having committed horrible crimes against women.

Then DD is about to start school soon (preschool at present) and they ask about ‘gender identity’…i don’t bloody know, she’s 4 she doesn’t have one!

Then i have my own past filled with the serious (sa within family not fully out yet) and what I guess in my scale of serious would be termed not so much (ranging from continuous professional mansplaining to mildly coercive relationships).

What’s the antidote? I’ve signed her up to martial arts next term so she can gain some physical confidence and see just what girls can do. I just want her to have less people pleasing in her than I did (with the boy she just passively ignored him no doubt taking in the fact we’ve always taught her kind hands and that we don’t hit…although I would’ve been just fine with her ending whatever he was starting to be honest!) I want her to say ‘No’ with the confidence of an 80 year old that has no fcks to give. But how without turning her into a bulldozer that’s petrified of the world?!

Therapy won't stop the world being a dangerous place for women and girls though.

In the situation at her birthday we did step in. Both DH and I. We both firmly called out no pushing, we don’t pull etc. It was a bit passive aggressive to be fair but I guess we were hoping it would snap the mum into action. As it was she just stood by. We also removed DD from the situations and stood between her and the boy, asking her if she was ok and what she’d like to do next and helping to redirect. It was a bit of a sht-show but we learnt a lot and have discussed how we would handle it in the future. Next time I won’t be so considerate of the mum/dad theyte feelings don’t take priority over DD. I was concerned because to be fair english isn’t her first language and she seemed like she was uncomfortable and perhaps a bit shy. But at some point you have to put your big girl pants on and deal with your kid.

This is a great idea, well done your mum!

Do you have any stories or authors that stood out for you from a young age? I immediately thought thats a great idea that I could start now. DD is just starting to read. She’s good but we’re still on very simple books. I might start another thread and ask for some suggestions actually. We need to update her bookshelf!

I love this list thankyou!!

In OP's case, I would have told the boy (in his mother's earshot) that we don't do X and if he carries on he'll have to leave. And the second time saying again, he has one more chance. After the third incident, I would have asked his mum to take him home.

Now you know what he's like, I'd not be inviting him along to anything again, even if he's the only one left out.

You’re right there @Butterflyfern, sod being kind, respect for DD comes first. I’m building my own spine up!

I think that the best thing you can do is be a good role model. Let dd see you say no to people eg cold callers in the hopes that she replicates it.

When she objects to something, let her explain- definitely don’t pull the listen to me because I’m your parent card. It’s ok to ask her to use her words calmly (no whinging, shouting etc ) but being able to articulate to you why she’s saying no will help her become emotionally intelligent and able to recognize her feeling faster in future. I have boys as well a girl so explaining difficult feelings rather than shouting etc is something that I’ve tried to model and expect. They are now adults who I can have difficult conversations with and it seems like they carry this into their relationships too.

Out of interest - have you taught your dd to never hit or that it’s ok to hit back but never to hit first ?

'I’ve heard her talk about him in passing usually about him making this or that kid cry, pushing, her or someone else. I passed it off as kids being kids. Did an all class invite because I didn’t want to exclude anyone.'

......

So despite your child warning you , you ignored her feelings and invited him.

How is that protecting her?

She has in the past also mentioned playing games with him and being friends at others. She has never seemed upset when talking to me about it but is often matter of fact. I usually tend to ask and then what happened and it’s usually followed by her saying she told him to ‘stop that’ or that the teacher told him off etc so i had (perhaps mistakenly i admit) assumed these events are being sufficiently handled by teachers. Especially as I have never been pulled aside for a chat, which I know has happened with other parents for similar things.

She’s in a full class of kids and she openly tells me about her day and has mentioned other kids too. Should I assume she’s surrounded by bullies because so and so snatched her play dough?

I just realised that over time she’s mentioned him negatively more often than others and the interactions that I saw I didn’t like so yes I am protecting her in the best way I know how without assuming every kid that bumps into her is a bully.

Tbf I don’t think we have ever made the distinction clear enough and I’m seeing the issue with that now. We always just instinctively said to use gentle hands with others and things like ‘we don’t hit’ when she was the one being the aggressor. We’ve very much encourage her to use her words, done work around boundaries and told her it’s very out to loudly say please stop or get away or scream etc if someone crosses her boundaries, but we haven’t emphasised that it’s also ok to physically push someone away and I will certainly be changing that

When we did IWD this year, we chatted about discrimination historic and current (in a KS1 appropriate way). One of my Rainbows (aged 6) stuck up her hand in the circle and said "Yes <my guiding name>, that's called sexism".

I chatted with her Mum at pickup. She really recommended the "Fantastically Great Women Who Changed the World" books, which the child had thoroughly enjoyed whilst solidifying the importance of women in the world

Please be careful about 'buddhist centres' - there are various dodgy culty buddhist groups, and abuse and bad behaviour are just as prevalent in Buddhism as in any other religion. I say this as someone with moderate experience of various Buddhist schools/groups.

Some are good!

https://www.amightygirl.com/

Has great resources for films, books, toys etc.

And this site has good approaches for teaching resilience:

https://www.peacefulparenthappykids.com/guide/concern-resilience-and-stress

I also think sport or some kind of activity that helps you be present in your body and gain body confidence and mastery is great.

I agree with this. There is strength in numbers. Encourage strong friendships (with both boys and girls) and teach her to recognise healthy relationships and friendships.

Also do you have any good girls secondary schools near you? My dd is starting GCSEs next year and has had a great experience at a girls school. She has so much more confidence than when she was in a mixed primary.

Yes ours too. Dd1 very bright and hardworking but quiet and low key. A girls school has been perfect for her. I think she would have now cowed and retreated into herself in a mixed comp like mine was. She will be leaving the school with a string of top results (def GCSEs hopefully a levels) and a group of lovely loyal friends.

Oh great idea! Please do start a thread and link on here or tag me x

"Did an all class invite because I didn’t want to exclude anyone".

🙄

I have a young adult DD now in first yesr at Uni. It is so difficult navigating this world, I have been there for her but she has also been there for me, educating me about the challenges so OP, just as you’ve been listening to your DD talk about the bullying boy at Nursery, continue to listen.

Looking back what helped her become such a strong independent and wise young woman (apart from the parenting) was an all girls school from 7 upwards. We did pay for a few years private at primary but all the rest has been state. When she was repeatedly hit by a boy and her hair pulled and the school said ‘but he has ADHD so you have to be understanding’ we rented out a spare room in our house, pooled our savings, got a second job and put her in private for a few years. She then went to an all girl’s state grammar for secondary. Even now she is loving being in all women’s college at Uni.

She took up fencing and often beat the boys so didn’t avoid them.

DD’s friends are huge allies for each other, my DH is a bit disparaging calling it ‘the sisterhood’ but for everything from dealing with puberty and relationships to shopping and homework it has been a vital support network. It is also so uplifting seeing young women not shackled by the things we had been conditioned to think of as normal and acceptable. There is a lot of hope out there, it isn’t all doom.

I completely understand where you're coming from OP.

What confuses me, is whenever there are posts like this, a lot of replies are 'most men are good.'

But you only need to read a small number of threads on this site to see the comments that suggest otherwise. Constant replies of men's needs, men cheating, men needing sex. A study found in 2017 that 57% of males admitted to committing infidelity. That's just the ones who have admitted it.

You only have to see if a man posts here on mumsnet, the total backlash (sometimes it's granted but not all) they get from just posting as a male.

But then you get the mums who are saying 'I have boys, I'm raising them to be xyz' but for some reason, their sons are / will be exempt from treating women appallingly, while posting berating men and how awful they are. The statistics show for themselves. There are a lot of awful men in the world. 1 in 4 women have been sexually assaulted by a man in the U.K. It's astounding and nothing short of shocking.

So there are plenty of awful men about, whether you're raising your son not to be that person or not, how you parent your current primary school age son will not necessarily suggest they'll grow up to be a 'good man.'

The point I'm trying to make (albeit badly) is that other boy mum parents saying their raising their sons to be gentle and kind and strapping young adults, really doesn't give much comfort to mums of little girls.

All the men who abuse / mistress / SA women, are sons of parents who ultimately mostly would've 'raised them to be kind and gentle men.'

Lots of men are good. However, many (not all by any means) of the "good ones" will go through an aggressive stage, a stage where they snap girls bra straps or joke with their mates about which girl is a slag etc. Maybe they grow out of it. Good for them! But its normal for mother's and fathers of girls to worry about their daughters and the impact on their daughters of having to navigate that while still children themselves.

Saying "just teach her most men are good" isn't going to help her if she is pressured by a boy into sending nudes which he then shares with his friends. Father's of daughters aren't usually telling their daughters "most men are good. Don't worry". Why do the people here think that is?

What I'm saying is that the character development of someone else's son isn't the ops concern. Her daughter is.

Teaching boundaries and assertiveness is good. Self defense can really help with that. As is having positive male role models. But the most important thing is making sure she knows she is cherished and cared for and cares about herself. Unfortunately, other people care more about children and adults that show signs of being cared about. And predators/manipulative people will target those with low self esteem and who no one really cares for. By loving your daughter (the fact you thought to start this thread), you have already massively improved her chances if getting through life relatively unscathed.

Whole heartedly agree with this

The hardest part of being a mum is letting your kids out in to the nightmarish world on their own but you have to do it or else they will live shit lives. You should have walked up to the mother and asked her to control her child and done it in front of your daughter so she can see an example of how to deal bad behaviour.

Self esteem is everything, so much of the shitty behaviour I put up with from men in the past was due to low self-esteem.

Like pp's, we praise strength, power and height as physical attributes. We praise people's fashion choices as 'cool', 'unusual' etc rather than 'pretty'.

We taught DD the difference between being compassionate and being a doormat. What being a good friend means, and if someone isn't displaying that behaviour towards you, you don't have to suck it up. We praise assertiveness and arguing a point clearly.

We are also very glad she goes to a girls' school. She has some good male friends via an activity she does, and she's happy with that.