Surrogacy/reality disconnect

[DeepHedgehog]

I hesitated to post this because it comes across as a personal attack on this woman/couple, which it is absolutely not. If anything, I admire them not being secretive about their reproductive choices. However, I was surprised at the depth of my feelings about this when I saw it (originally on Instagram) and can't get it out of my head.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-13337199/Princess-Beatrices-pal-Alice-Naylor-Leyland.html

Why is the new mother in a hospital bed? She didn't give birth (and is very open about that fact, she's not pretending anything). Why not just put the father in a bed? It's like we're pretending that she has given birth to the baby and that the baby somehow knows who she is, her voice, her smell and so on. When in fact that cannot be the case.

I can't get my head around it.

Maybe she needs it to connect with the baby. Didn't Kardashian say she didn't have a strong bond with the baby or something?
Which makes you think they shouldn't do it in the first place...

Probably because she was staying in the hospital to be present for the birth and did have a bed for this reason.

This makes me want to weep. That poor little girl has the vernix coating on her skin, she has literally been taken from the woman who carried her and put straight into the arms of a stranger. This is abhorrent and shocking that a woman who has carried three children of her own would willingly put a newborn through such distress, it’s actually making me cry. I’m here feeding my ten week old and just imagining him being ripped away from everything he knew for nine months and then put onto the chest of a stranger it’s sickening

I’m not sure why you think the baby still has a vernix coating on her skin. In situations like these, it is usual for hospitals to wash the vernix off.

It does seem extremely odd.

Having a hospital bed as you're staying there yourself until baby is discharged...I disagree with surrogacy entirely but if you were to do it, this is logical. Even having a hospital ID bracelet on - baby needs to match the legal mother, I get why.

However, having a hospital bed is one thing. Wearing a nighty-like garment, getting into the bed with the baby almost immediately after birth, then covering yourself with blankets before a photo...ummm. Seems like play-acting to me which seems very distasteful.

@LostInTheBog you can see it in the picture where she has her close up

They should have washed it off. Hospital did with our baby. We had no say in it, although it did seem the right thing to do.

The photo of the baby tied up in a massive pink ribbon is sad too. Wrapped like a new trinket

She’s obviously been watching the handmaids tale for inspo

But it would be sad with any baby.

Yeah, I mean that stuff is totally not my thing but hey. I don't think there's any doubt that this couple love (all) their children and want only the best for them. As I said I hesitated to post this because it seems like a personal attack. It's not at all.

I just... I mean, people really are buying babies and acting like it doesn't cause any issues for the babies at all. It's like we've lost touch with reality.

Why did the father not get into a bed? It would have made about as much sense.

This is an English couple, and yet their child was born in the US. Obviously because buying babies isn't legal here.

I get it OP. It’s distasteful and very handmaiden’s tale. And it’s their 4th child!

Agreed it is scarily similar in style to the handmaid's tale! There is literally no reason for her to be in a hospital bed, with pyjamas and a hospital tag on acting like she is the one who just gave birth. It is really quite sinister.

It’s usual these days for them just to wipe it a but rather than wash it, it’s beneficial to the baby.

It's not true that they "should" have washed it off. It's not necessary for hygiene for it to be washed off. Mine weren't washed in hospital at all.

Vernix is protective of the babies skin. It is no longer washed off thankfully.

They should have washed off because it carried the smell of the birth mother and the baby was going straight into the arms of ‘not birth mother’ and needed to pick up on her smells.
I agree in normal birth circs that the vernix would not be washed off.

WRT washing off/not washing off the vernix the parents/hospital seem to be damned if they do and damned if they don’t according to this thread. But then again, I’m not really sure what the point of the post is. You say that you are not getting at the couple here @DeepHedgehogbut by choosing to post on the Feminism board I’m sure you have a fair idea how this will go.

I agree that this a strange picture to post and it is a bit of posturing / play acting.

But I'm also aware that she originally only shared with followers on insta and the DM has run this story, in which there is no public interest, just so we will judge her. It's pure misogyny - even if she handed them the tools to do it with.

And I'm not feeling too superior about it because I clicked on the link myself. But just thought it was worth pointing out.

@LostInTheBog I could hardly discuss photos I found disturbing without mentioning the people in them, could I? But it's not like they are the first or only people to do so, so of course I don't have anything against them specifically. And a child has been born who is no doubt very much loved and who could ever say that someone shouldn't be here?

All that said, I am quite upset about the fact that this seems to be generally accepted and I do not see why I should not be allowed to discuss my concerns. The point of the post is that I cannot get my head around it and do not understand why we as a society apparently accept this and ignore the welfare of the babies concerned.

I posted it on the Feminist board because I believe it's a feminist issue. If I'd posted it on AIBU that would have been an invitation to people to slam the couple and/or each other, and it is not. But you know all this. It would be more interesting to hear why you think surrogacy isn't really an issue. Then we could perhaps have a sensible discussion. I'm genuinely disturbed by the photos of someone in a bed as if they've just given birth and I wonder what this says about our culture. At the same time, I am not keen on knocking people online - but I don't think it's knocking someone to raise concerns about something they are putting out there.

Why on earth is she wearing a hospital bracelet?

Good point. I posted the DM link but to be fair I found the photos organically as I follow(ed) her mother on Insta. The woman concerned runs a business and writes for Vogue so while not a public figure it's not that she lives a life of complete anonymity.

Again though, we're discussing her and not her husband so the misogyny is definitely there!

I don't know. Maybe I really shouldn't have posted it. I'm alarmed though. Can we never discuss surrogacy, because it's either homophobic (as per previous debates) or misogynistic? Perhaps I should ask for it to be deleted, as I certainly don't want to single anyone out.

I think I'm just out of step with society because I feel really conflicted and can't get on board with all the gushing comments. While at the same time it's always lovely when a much-wanted baby is born.

'I think I'm just out of step with society.'

I've read those gushing comments and they aren't from 'society'. A load of other self interested sycophants op.

@DeepHedgehog well I certainly wouldn't be the first to judge you for your post and your comments which I essentially agree with.

But I just think it's good to be aware that that story, which may on the surface appear to be sympathetic, is inviting essentially there to invite us to judge her for those ill-judged photos. And also maybe the fact she's had 4 kids which is becoming more and more unusual with the falling birth rate.

Yes, the photos are ill-judged. But I'm sure there's more to this woman than that.

I agree personal attacks don’t help, but calling out surrogacy for what it is, is important - buying babies to serve a want of the purchasing couple, and not in the best interests of the babies or the women whose bodies (and minds?) are being bought. The language used is to enable this to be painted as a beautiful thing but it disgusts me, to be honest.