I went to the Tavistock as a young person - AMA

[MAW1993]

I attended the Tavistock from 2008 to 2011, beginning when I was about 15. I made this post because I saw the many questions people asked on a previous AMA. Unfortunately, the OP was uncomfortable answering some of them, and I felt there may be a need for an AMA with someone who can be more open.

No questions but this is such a wonderful thread. Thank you, op. I’m heartened that questions have stayed respectful, I do wonder whether that might have been different had you been a trans man. What are your opinions on trans men and female only spaces? That seems to be the political hot potato right now. Please don’t answer unless you want to, or if you think it will change the respectful discussion here. I’m not GC, just to give you an idea of where my question is coming from.

What can others do as trans allies? Do you want people to be openly supportive and does that make you feel safe, or is it just bringing you unwanted attention / fear of being outed?

Does the GC movement contribute to the shame you feel around your trans identity?

I clearly changed my mind there about no questions, I’m sorry!

Yes I have suffered from sex dysphoria from a very young age. I was assaulted when I was 19. I had been taking testosterone and had passed as a man in my workplace. However, a disclosure of my status to one colleague became known to all. The work was of a nature where we all lived in staff accommodation on site, and it resulted in a campaign of harassment by one man, ultimately concluding with the rape and sexual assault.

I don't think it changed my sex dysphoria in the sense that it was always there and always had been very bad. But it brought it back to the front of my mind, alongside bringing up suicidal feelings once again. It was also very traumatic having to access healthcare and undergo examination etc. as someone with sex dysphoria. It was a very dark time in my life, and resulting in chronic pain and issues as I developed pelvic inflammatory disease. That has been a lot better since I had a hysterectomy when I was 24.

Just to say, I very much appreciate the many kind comments that people have made here. Although I am replying specifically to questions, I have read all the comments and do not want anyone to think I am ignoring them.

How terrifying and awful for you. No wonder you have reservations about coming out. 💐

I’m so sorry for your experience with the sexual assault, that’s horrific.

I haven't had any contact with them since I attended as a child. My care was taken over by a private doctor, followed by adult services, and now my GP. I am aware of future research being done by the team who made the Cass report to investigate long term outcomes for all people who attended the Tavistock as a child. However, I was upset to learn that this would involve granting access to identifiable data like my name and date of birth, and that my consent wasn't obtained for that.

I read on the Cass website that all patients would be contacted and provided with an option to opt out, but that never happened. I only found out in light of the news controversy surrounding my adult gender clinic (amongst others) refusing to provide the data. Unfortunately I don't feel much trust in the team due to the way they have so far conducted the study, and worry about the security of the pseudonymised data. As a result I have exercised my right to opt out.

I'm a little unsure what you mean. I am a trans man, that is, a biological female who has had medical intervention to make my body appear more like that of a male. Do you mean if I had been a trans woman (a biologically male person)?

In terms of being an ally, I think I am probably less informed than someone who is openly trans or does not pass. However, what was helpful to me early on was simple compassion. I know it is something that seems very odd and is hard to understand for your average person, but when people are willing to let that go and treat you first as a human being entitled to dignity, any other barrier can be overcome IMO.

I did used to have mixed feelings about the increased awareness of trans issues, as it did make me more fearful that someone would spot something in me. However, those fears have alleviated somewhat over the years, as I haven't had any issues for a long time now. I hope it will help younger trans people be kinder to themselves, and to live an easier life.

In terms of the GC movement, I have found it isn't homogenous. I have seen people who have a clear disdain of trans people, and who go out of their way to be hurtful and cruel. However, there are also concerns that I can understand and identify with.

I share the concerns about people being pigeon holed and stereotyped by the biological sex. I worry for people who undergo medical transition for social reasons, rather than sex dysphoria. I don't agree with any attempt to delegitimise their distress, but I wouldn't want to see people make changes to their body that they will live to regret. I know how much sex dysphoria can blight a life. That said, it may be that medical transition is the best way to relieve their distress, and who would am I to say they shouldn't? Ultimately, I don't have easy answers on how to balance these genuine concerns with the risk of doing harm by limiting peoples' agency.

You don't have trust in which team?

The Cass team?

Have you completed the opt out form that was being sent around last week?

The team doing the research at the University of York. I think they are separate from the team than actually wrote the report? I'm not that sure though to be honest.

I haven't been provided with any kind of form to opt out by the researchers. I used a contact form on the Cass report website to ask how I could exercise this decision but not receive a response. I opted out via the national data opt out instead, as a brief on the study stated that national opt outs would be respected.

You don't trust them but don't know them?

And don't want to give any follow up info that might help people in the future?

Honestly, if you are so happy then surely that would be good feedback for people?

Genuinely baffling.

I know who is undertaking the research, it's a team at the University of York. I don't know the precise logistics of whether they were involved with developing the recommendations in the Cass report itself and sat on its board, or whether simply have performed systematic reviews.

I explained my concerns in my previous post, which you don't seem to have addressed. The research involves using identifiable information such as my name and date of birth to link my medical files from separate data systems. Obviously that could cause concern to anyone, but particularly trans people.

The assurances made by the research team about how people's rights and privacy would be maintained included communication with the affected parties on the research, and the provision of an opt out option if they so chose. However, that has not happened and I would have had absolutely no idea my data was being used in this way if it hadn't been featured in the news. My attempts to get clarification following this discovery have been met with no response. Considering the fact that their research requires pseudonymisation rather than true anonymisation, whether I feel I can trust the team involved or not is a crucial consideration. Due to their failure to follow through on what they promised to do, I don't have sufficient trust in them.

Whilst others may feel differently than me, I struggle to see what is so baffling about my concerns, and it is frankly a little disappointing to see such a blasé response.

I'm sorry, that is horrific.

It's so awful to think that this man's response to learning that you are biologically female was to harass and ultimately assault and rape you.

It's not difficult to understand why you prefer to live as a man and are at the same time afraid of sharing single sex spaces with men.

I hope you are doing well now.

This thread has been very good for Mumsnet. Thank you OP.

Thanks so much for your response, and I’m really truly sorry for not spotting the unfortunate autocorrect, and have no idea why it did that. I did of course mean that you are a trans man, and was asking your opinion on trans women in single sex spaces.

I’ll try to amend that but think there may be a time limit on it.

No worries, thank you for your clarification. I think it can be a difficult matter, as I believe people should be entitled to a single sex space, but I often find the debate becomes very toxic and derogatory.

In general, I think that there is a responsibility on trans people to be aware of their biological sex, and be sensitive to the needs of others. I think that reasonable compromises can normally be found, that will protect the dignity of both parties. For example, I think the increased frequency of single user toilets is very beneficial and that is a good option for transgender people to use.

Equally, I think in a hospital setting that the use of a side room for a transgender patient can protect both their dignity, and the dignity of patients on a single sex ward. That said, I think it is important that such an issue is addressed with sensitivity and tact, so as not to draw attention to the transgender patient.

Finally, when it comes to issues such as prisons or rape crisis centres, where the service users are inherently very vulnerable, I think there should be separate provision for trans people. I think that is to the benefit of everyone, as trans people have specific health and social needs that can often be best addressed by a specialised service, and it maintains the safety and privacy of other people.

Thank you for your understanding and kindness. Things have been much better since my hysterectomy 7 years ago.

This is fascinating. I'm really glad you are in a happier place now.

However, did you say you were outed and then raped? That's horrendous, if so. It must have been terrifying and painful for you.

Unfortunately that did occur. The medical team, police and support service who helped me were all wonderful though. It is probably the most empathetic and respectful care I have ever received, and for that I am very grateful.

I've been thinking about this and wonder whether you see any similarities with your experiences and anorexia? A friend of mine suffered body dysmorphia too and hardly ate anything. She used to make appointments for a gastric sleeve etc and was always knocked back as she was so thin but it was clear she was desperate for surgery. Obviously in her case it wouldn't have done any good and I'm glad that you feel better now about your appearance. It's so exhausting being so unhappy with your body.

I think there are some similarities and some differences. The overwhelming distress people feel in relation to their body is something I can really identify with.

However, an important difference for me is the potential outcome of both. Whilst I appreciate some people consider medical intervention in trans people to be a form of mutilation, for me it provided a lot of relief and allowed me to lead a relatively normal life. In contrast, if a person with anorexia is allowed to continue losing weight, it could result in serious ill health and even death.

Furthermore, I am not aware that people with anorexia have their distress relieved by losing weight. My understanding is that there is often an inability to accurately gauge their body mass, and sufferers often still believe themselves to be overweight when actually very thin. In contrast, many trans people do have their distress relieved by some degree of medical intervention.

Whilst medical transition can be fraught with side effects and potential complications, I don't think the scale of them can be compared with the degree of risk for serious illness or death seen in anorexia.

No matter what though, I think people with anorexia deserve compassion and empathetic care in the same way that people who have sex dysphoria do. I also want to point out that I am not any kind of expert in terms of anorexia, and my answer is only based on the more limited knowledge I have about that condition.

Thank you for this AMA, it's been really interesting to read

You mentioned identifying as a butch lesbian for a while before your transition and an attraction to a girl. How do you define your sexuality and / or romantic attraction now?

If you are still attracted to women, do you feel part of the 'queer' community / still a lesbian or more closely aligned with straight men?

My sexuality has not changed, I am attracted to women both sexually and romantically. I don't feel like I am a lesbian, but I also don't think I'm just an average straight man. I'm not sure I really fit into any easily defined group.

Thank you ever so much for this thread. Like the rest of society, I'm on a learning journey re. trans issues and this thread is proving to be one of the 'required reading' texts in that learning process.
I don't have a question (at least not yet) but do have some advice.

You are clearly very conscientious and wanting to do the right thing in relation to respecting your patients' wishes whilst also protecting yourself. You responded positively to a previous contributor's suggestion that you speak to your manager. Even without knowing your manager, I would advise against that. Not all managers are nice people and what you see on the surface isn't necessarily representative of what lies below. In addition, even if your manager genuinely intended to keep your confidence, unintentional slips happen - all it would take is for them to mention that they had a trans member of staff for some to start wondering who it could be.
Instead, I would seek guidance on what is the ethically-correct, professional approach from your professional body. As a student, you are in a perfect position to seek that information without it seeming in any way related to you yourself... you could be asking for help with an assignment.

Please feel free not to respond to this suggestion: I believe that you will read it, and it's up to you whether you follow the advice or not.

Finally, I have two daughters, one trans and one cis. I'd be perfectly happy for either one of them to bring you home to 'meet the parents'. I hope your future includes such (& much) love. ❤️

Thank you for your kind comment. I also really appreciate your advice. The issue of someone disclosing that I am transgender is a constant battlefield to navigate. I will write to the GMC and see what they have to say in relation to it.