I went to the Tavistock as a young person - AMA

[MAW1993]

I attended the Tavistock from 2008 to 2011, beginning when I was about 15. I made this post because I saw the many questions people asked on a previous AMA. Unfortunately, the OP was uncomfortable answering some of them, and I felt there may be a need for an AMA with someone who can be more open.

How do you feel about the controversy over it now?

What process did you go through while you were there and where are you now - ie do you still consider yourself trans?

How are you today?

As an adult now. How do you feel about whatever treatment you were given as a child/young person?
If you have your own children.... would you be happy to refer them to the same clinic now if it still existed.

Quite sad about it all, and divided also.

I have some worries about the increase in numbers, and I have seen drastic changes in the kind of people making up the trans community in recent years. I've also seen a big change in the narrative, where sex dysphoria is less common and gender identity is more focused on. As such, I worry about the possibility of children making irreversible changes, when it may instead be possible for them to adjust to their biological sex and live happy and productive lives. I think transitioning is often very traumatic, and should be avoided whenever it is possible.

Equally, I worry for children with severe sex dysphoria, and understand how traumatic it can be to go through puberty in that situation. I also worry about increasing talk of both children and adults intending to acquire hormonal treatments online, without medical supervision.

I don't feel I'm personally knowledgeable enough about the scientific method critically analyse the Cass report on a technical level though.

I'm assuming you felt convinced that you were in some way "really" the opposite sex from the one you are... could you try and talk us through your thought process around this? Were there a set of characteristics you thought only belonged to one sex?

Or, was it more a desire to be the opposite sex regardless of what you're like as a person?

I'm not here to pick holes, I'm interested as to how gender id/body dysmorphia comes about.

I really wanted to be placed on puberty blockers, but they wanted to do psychological exploration first. I got asked to fill in sheets that asked how I felt about each of my body parts, such as my arms or legs, my chest and my genitals. They also wanted to know about my sexuality etc.

I found it very distressing to be honest, as I was very embarrassed about it all. I asked if I could talk to the therapist without my mother in the room, but that was not an option. I did not feel comfortable talking about my genitals and other private things in front of her though.

Due to this, and there being quite long gaps between appointments, I was never put onto puberty blockers. At the time they were not willing to put patients on the waiting list for adult services until they were 18. As such I felt quite desperate as I knew it could be a long wait to receive testosterone, which is what I wanted, and I ultimately went private with the support of my mother at the age of 17.

The private process was quite a similar, except there was only 3 months between appointments. The first appointment was, again, discussion of my feelings, but because I was 18 I could do it alone. I then needed an appointment with a psychiatrist separate to the provider to get a second opinion. I had a second appointment 3 months later where the doctor went through the risks, and the unknowns, and asked me to think about it all until the next appointment. On the third I was prescribed testosterone, a little after my 18th birthday. It remained a private prescription until after going through the necessary steps at Charing Cross (adult services), where I had my first appointment at the age of 20.

I also paid privately for a bilateral mastectomy shortly after my 20th birthday, after deferring university so I could work and save up. After this, I went to university, did not tell anyone of my past, and have not since. Today the only people who do know that I was not born a man are my family. I do not have romantic relationships, but if I did they would be the only other people I would tell.

I have also had a consultation and was accepted for phalloplasty several years ago, but unfortunately I developed a serious health condition and could not have the procedure. I had a period of ill health for about 5 years, but have now recovered. I have been re-referred to my local gender dysphoria clinic so they can once again assess and then refer me for a surgery consultation, but I expect that will take quite a long time.

It has taken a long time but I am very happy now. I am in medical school, which is something I always dreamed of but thought I was too old to change my career path. I would like to have phalloplasty in the future, as I still feel very distressed over my female reproductive organs. I would also like to experience a relationship and love, but I don't feel that I can as I am now.

Thanks I'm glad you are happy.

Do you want children? Will that not be impossible if you have phalloplasty?

Thankyou for telling your story and I wish you all the very best. I’m sure you’ll find your experience of being on the other side of the fence incredibly valuable as a doctor.

At the time, I was very frustrated and angry about what felt like impossible hoops to jump through. My view is more nuanced now. I still feel that the very long waits to actually see someone were excessive, but I understand why they needed to thoroughly explore my experiences before moving straight to using a drug.

I do think that young people should be given a private space to talk about these issues. I am blessed to have a mother who has loved and supported me my whole life. She was devastated and went through a real grief period for several years when she first found out, but has always made it clear she loved me no matter what. However, even with all that, I just couldn't bring myself to talk about such private things in front of her.

I can understand the need to talk with family present, and think there should be space for both. I think private discussions could be facilitated with a chaperone present, followed by a discussion with the child and their carers about the issues raised afterwards so that the parents remain informed about the process.

I don't have children yet, though I would like a family. I honestly would be very sad if they had sex dysphoria, as it has caused me so much misery in my life. But if they did, and they could not find a way to live happily as their biological sex, then I would support them to get treatment. No matter what, I would want to provide unconditional love, as my mother did, as I feel that is the only thing that got me through my childhood and teenage years.

@MAW1993 hi. Thank you for making this thread. I hope you're ok with my question but if not, feel free not to answer.
When you say you'd like to have a family, do you mean you'd like to physically birth a child yourself or something else (adoption for instance, or being in a relationship with a woman who has a child)?
If you decided and were able to birth a child yourself, would you have any concerns as to the affect on the child of the treatments you've been on and are presumably still on?
Thanks.

Thank you for being open, did you have trauma as a child, repress being gay, grow up with adverse childhood experiences or feel particularly objectified as a young female?

Thanks for starting this thread! I have two questions:

1. Have you had any health difficulties arising from your hormone treatment or surgery? I know this can happen but I'm not sure how common it is.

1. It sounds like you've never had a sexual/romantic relationship and that this is linked to your feelings about your body, is that right?

You say that you hope that if your children suffered sex dysphoria, that they would only transition if it was impossible for them to find a way to live happily as their biological sex. Were any treatments along this line explored for you, or do you wish they had been? Would you currently consider therapy to find a way to be more comfortable with the female reproductive organs that you are distressed by? Do you consider that you are currently mentally well, given that you still feel so much distress? What could have been done to help you as a child to come to terms with being female, before you discovered the idea of puberty blockers or surgery?

I have never believed I am the opposite sex. I was born female, and I am female today. Whilst I have pharmacologically and surgically modified my sexual characteristics, I know it is impossible to truly change sex. Socially I feel I fit more into a grey area. I experienced being treated as a girl until my teenage years, and then I experienced being treated as a trans boy/man. As an adult I have been treated as other men are, as people are not aware of my biological sex.

In terms of what triggered my choice to transition - I had a deep distress related to my genitals from a young age. My first memories of this are from when I was in nursery. I'm not sure exactly how old I was, but I'd estimate around 3-4 years old, as I went into school reception year not too long after. When I saw myself in the mirror, or had a bath, I felt terrible distress, but I did not know why or what it meant.

This distress got worse the older I got, and I would lie awake at night wishing I had been born with a penis. That feeling has never gone away. I have no idea why I am like this though.

I was very fortunate to have a mother who never really enforced gender stereotypes on me or my brother. We were treated very equally and played and dressed in whatever kind of clothes we were comfortable in. As a young child I wore 'girls' clothes, but they would always be practical tshirts and trousers, as I would always be out playing with other children on the street. From the age of about 10 all my clothes came from the boys section, after I asked my mum in the shop if I could get them. She was always a tomboy growing up, and I don't think she really thought anything of it, other than me wanting more practical and comfortable clothes, which girls clothes are sadly often not.

I had a very accepting friend group in primary school. I enjoyed running, and there was a nice group of us, both boys and girls, who would spend our break time having races. As such, my differences weren't so apparent. My only real distress related to swimming lessons due to the need to undress in an open changing room, and I would always pretend to be ill to try and avoid it.

However, when I started high school I suffered very severe bullying, mainly from other girls. I changed my appearance to try and look more typically female, and tried to push my feelings down so I could just be 'normal'. Unfortunately this resulted in mental health problems, and that combined with continued bullying resulted in a suicide attempt when I was 13. My parents took me out of the school and I went to a new one. Unfortunately, I had similar experiences there. I ultimately told my mother I thought I was transgender. She was really devastated by this, though she never judged me, I would just find her crying when she thought I wasn't looking. My father was not accepting of it for many years until I was an adult.

My parents divorced and I asked my mother if I could change my name to that of a boy, and try and live as one. She agreed to this, but the school was not on board. They compromised by adding trousers to the female uniform, which I wore, but I was not able to socially transition until I was 16 and went to sixth form college. The staff there had never had a trans student, and did not really know how to deal with it, but all were very kind and tried to be supportive however they could. I still did get bullied by some students, but I also found a very loving and supportive group of friends who accepted me.

In terms of who I am as a person, I don't think that has ever really changed, though of course I have grown and matured as we all have.

Did social media influence your belief that you were the opposite sex ? Where did the feeling/idea come from ? I wish you well and thank you for answering these questions 💐.

I would like children. I knew the risk to my fertility by having testosterone but chose not to freeze eggs, as biological children has never been very important to me. I had a hysterectomy and oophorectomy at the age of 24, and I do not regret it. I knew I could never bear to be pregnant, nor have vaginal sex. As it is not important to me that my children be biologically related, I did not see the point of freezing eggs.

I hope I will be sufficiently comfortable with my body to find a loving relationship, and adopt children, but if it doesn't happen then it is what it is.

Thank you for engaging with it. I know many people have legitimate questions but fear condemnation for asking them. The only questions I will not answer are those for which I lack genuine knowledge.

I would like to have a relationship in the future, and would be equally happy to adopt if she had no children, to use sperm donation if biological children were important to her, or to be a loving step parent. I went into in more detail in my last comment also. I know some trans men choose to, but I could never bear the thought of going through a pregnancy myself.

Because I have never had this desire, I am not massively informed about the effects of things like testosterone on pregnancy or the developing foetus and so it's hard for me to answer that part of your question as I would simply be guessing.

Given all that you now know and have experienced - what do you think would have been the ideal way to treat you when you first contacted the Tavistock?

Oh my God, you have really been through a lot of pain. I'm so sorry. Teenage years can absolutely be hell. I really hope you are finding peace and can leave all that behind.

So essentially, you wanted to become male-bodied, because of a deep dislike of your body as female, but you have no idea why this hatred towards your own genitals etc? Did any other parts/aspects of your body distress you?

And a completely different question, do you essentially see "men" as males (and "women" as females) in terms of presentation at least, or would you also say (as some, but by no means all) TRAs say that you can be a man "inside" or in terms of your gender identity but be completely female/ presenting as female?

Thanks for answering so articulately.

I found my childhood incredibly difficult due to the distress I felt towards my biological sex and genitals. However, I was blessed to have a loving, accepting and truly wonderful mother. My father did his best, but had a very dysfunctional childhood himself, and we were not very close when I was a child. He did not accept my choice to transition until I was in my early 20s. I experienced some healthcare discrimination, and though he never explicitly stated he had changed his views, he was very angry at how I had been treated, and gave a lot of practical support in how to challenge it. These days, he calls me by my new name and refers to me as 'he', and we have also got a much closer relationship in general and in ways unrelated to trans issues.

The main adverse experiences I had began in high school, when I was bullied very severely by other girls due to my lack of traditional femininity. As a result, I spent several years trying to dress more like other girls, to use make up etc. but ultimately I was never accepted. I had very bad depression and attempted suicide, which was followed by my parents moving me to another school. Unfortunately the bullying continued there, and my distress at my sex got even worse as began to have a menstrual cycle and grow breasts. I started to explore transgender forums and decided I wanted to transition, but that was delayed by several factors, which I have gone into in more detail above.

In terms of objectification, I have one main experience. Whilst I often was taken as a younger boy when in sixth form college, I was equally often read as a butch lesbian. The main experience of objectification I can think of was in a pub. I was with my friends, most of whom were male and female gay teens, as there were not any other trans people at my sixth form college, or at least not openly. Two middle aged men in the smoking area asked me and a lesbian friend to make out, which we tried to laugh off, but one then started asking us gross sexual questions. We asked him to leave us alone and he became aggressive and called us ugly dykes before going back inside at the behest of his friend. We left, as the pub owner was already quite homophobic and had given grief to two of the boys for holding hands in the past. We only went there as it was adjacent to our sixth form college, but didn't feel safe going back after that.

Thank you for engaging. I have not had any health issues related to my hormonal treatment, and I was blessed to have an uncomplicated recovery from my mastectomy. I had some bleeding after my hysterectomy/oophrectomy, but it ultimated resolved without any further treatment being needed.

I had a girlfriend in sixth form college, who knew exactly what I was. She wanted to have sex and did try to convince me, not in an inappropriate or coercive way though. It was more just that she said she accepted me as I was, and told me I was preventing my own happiness by not being able to accept my body as it was. I ultimately never felt able to go beyond kissing and basic intimacy like hugging though. I apologised to her and broke up the relationship, as it was clear she needed more than just that.

I have never had any romantic relationship since, as I know that overwhelmingly a sexual component is important to people. I also feel that people are entitled to know that the person they are going to date is transgender, however I live stealth (no one in my life knows I am not biologically male except my family), and so I do not pursue any romantic relationship as I do not trust anyone not to divulge this information to my greater peer group.

@MAW1993 thats really interesting to hear your experience, thank you. Hope you have found peace with who you are and live a happy life.