Overheard in pharmacy

[Wtafis]

In pharmacy this morning overheard another customer asking for MAP

they were denied as the pharmacist says it’s against their religious beliefs

poor woman had called and asked if they stocked it and no one had advised her, she was getting close to the end of the 72 hour window

im so cross on her behalf that access can be blocked like this for women

Even on Bank Holidays there will be a rota of on-call pharmacists.

Rota can be found via NHS websites, by goggling "duty chemist near me" and probably on your council website.

Obvs the customer you saw didn't know that, so posting in case there are others who do not know.

but Jewish staff will sell bacon, Muslim staff sell alcohol, catholics condoms, I’m generalising obviously, but why is this different? It’s a hell of a lot more essential

Because there is a specific conscience clause specifically providing for this - since at least the 1967 Family Planning Act, possibly before that.

Ah interesting I didn’t know that.

i do think they should have to say “but x pharmacy at y location ha a pharmacist who will be able to help” a system they could check online or something

it’s time sensitive and depending on the persons situation they may have limited opportunity e.g. in a domestic abuse situation being able to pick it up while doing the supermarket shop could be a lifesaver

These religious exemptions need to be removed from legislation. If you choose to be a pharmacist, you do the whole job, not just the bits you like. If you choose to be a registrar, you marry gay couples, not just straight ones. If you have religious scruples, choose a job that will accommodate them. Don't want to provide the MAP? Be a podiatrist then. I have zero time for any of it.

Absolutely this

NHS Scotland covers it’s role stopping implantation:
https://www.nhsinform.scot/healthy-living/contraception/emergency-contraception

Though also agree, either way, a pharmacist working in pharmacy dispensing to the public shouldn’t be able to refuse to dispense the morning after pill or any drug to a member of the public on religious grounds if there isn’t another pharmacist available there and then who can do it instead.

It's far less effective after ovulation has occurred. Speaking from sad experience as well as NHS website.

I can't believe it's still acceptable to treat women like this though. Surely it's up to the pharmacy to work out how to accommodate the religious belief without breaking their service to a significant section of society? It should not be up to women to accommodate that belief during what is often a very traumatic (and time-sensitive) time.

Speaking as someone who is religious and against abortion for me, I totally agree with you.
There are jobs I could never do, so I don’t take them.

Absolutely dreadful.

How is a dispensing pharmacy allowed to be in a position where they can deny a perfectly legal product to someone who is legally entitled to buy it?

That pharmacy needs to be named and shamed so that women in a vulnerable position know not to go there and risk being turned away.. with added humiliation.

i do think they should have to say “but x pharmacy at y location ha a pharmacist who will be able to help” a system they could check online or something

I think they should be obliged to be pro actively clear about their service before that stage . Their opening hours, their website etc should all advertise “this pharmacy is not always able to supply MAP. Please use these local pharmacies instead…”

Yes that’s a good idea

maybe I’m naive but I had no idea some people would object to it

perhaps slightly ironically I was collecting my prescription for the pill so they are clearly ok with that

Not necessarily. It could have been another pharmacist who prepared that and left it ready to be handed over.

Yes.

100%.

I think this is outrageous. Had a similar experience several years ago when I went to a GP to go on contraception, after I had my 2nd DC. He said no and that it was against his religious beliefs and then I had to hang around for hours waiting for a gp to sign it off. It was really awful, I don't understand why you would train as a GP or pharmacist if you had such beliefs - it is going to come up fairly frequently.

I couldn't disagree more that they should be able to refuse. If they feel like that, they should be doing a different job.

And medical need should outweigh religious beliefs anyway, especially when those beliefs only affect women (I somehow doubt that they refuse to sell condoms to men).

Just seen that they let the OP have the pill. So they are not even consistent in their nonsense.

It's difficult enough to find a pharmacist that is actually open and properly staffed. So often you can't get things because they are on lunch, or are late arriving, or called in sick etc.

Many many years ago, I asked for the MAP and was refused because I had ticked that I hadn't had a period in the last 30 days. I was on the mini pill so of course I hadn't. He flat refused. Next chemist understood as she was a woman and we had a discussion about it.

My MIL worked previously at a Christian doctors but they tell everyone that they don't do contraceptives. The whole thing is madness. No religious views should affect health.

I could understand if the pharmacist lady didn't want to take the MAP herself....but to deny it to someone else is plain bonkers!!

By that same token then, would Christian/Muslim/Jewish emergency doctors refuse to resuscitate someone as it would be playing with God and altering his will for when the person dies??

I think it's a bit of a minefield. I'd be pissed if somebody refused me the MAP. However, I wouldn't want to create a situation where somebody could be forced to, for example, perform intimate examinations on a transwoman because they couldn't decline due to personal beliefs.

Hostile uterine environment was hypothesised as a mechanism of action when MAP was first released but there's never been any evidence to support it.

MAP is proven to prevent ovulation if taken at the right time of the cycle. That's why it doesn't always work: if it's too late to prevent ovulation, fertilisation can occur.

@TheZoehan but why is that your example? Regardless of whether you are GC or do not agree with trans ideology, if a trans woman requires an intimate exam for health reasons, they should be getting the intimate exam as required. We are not and should never be in the business of denying healthcare because of our beliefs. MAP should fall into this category.

I’d be spreading the word too. Sorry this happened OP

I think you've conflated a patient refusing an exam from a male with a HCP refusing to examine a male.

The first is a reasonable patient request that should be accommodated unless there's a medical emergency. The second is ridiculous and would be unwarranted direct discrimination by a service provider.

I was horrified when I first found out that pharmacists could do this. I really think it merits a campaign. I think BPAS have campaigned on it before.
It's one thing if you're confident and in your 30s and you live in a city where there are 3 different chemists on the same road. But if you're a teenager or vulnerable/anxious and you livw somewhere more rural where you can't easily get to another chemist, this could be absolutely devastating.

It's yet another of those uniquely female experiences that men just don't think about.

I remember having to take several busses to an a&e to get it as a teenager (the fear being that the GP would tell your mum). The one positive being the gang of female friends who came along too.

It also crazy that one should have to request this in front of the entire shop so you know the intimate situation of s random
Stranger

Surely a simple form with tick box that you hand to over discretely to the assistant would be a simple
Solution