Do you work from home and look after kids at the same time

[Amy8]

I've posted about this on my socials today and many agreed with this article
I was mortified ! Does anyone else find it sexist ?

@thevegetablesoup very good point about wfh being a retreat into the home.

I think in the long term it could be detrimental to careers not to be see in the office. Missing out on team building, the sort of informal stuff that's happens in all offices in the kitchen or at the photocopier.

So this is interesting…. Can you tell us what you’re doing in your influential role at a multi national to ensure working mothers are supported in their careers?

@Amy8 reading your posts you seems to be coming a this from a very narrow viewpoint, assuming that just becuase YOU can do it, we all can!
That really isn't the case. I'm a university academic ( specialising in women's career development actually) and I teach online regularly and therefore WFH 3 days a week. I cannot do this alongside childcare, I had to do it lockdown and it nearly killed me and my child ended up injured because I wasn't watching him as closely as I should.
Just becuase your clients might not mind your children being present doesn't mean that is universal. My students are paying a lot to study my course and they would be unimpressed if I was constantly interrupted.

Do you honestly think companies care about supporting working mothers???
They just want the job done, less hassle the better.

If women = more hassle
If men = less hassle and more flexible Then we'll employ a guy.

The glass ceiling exists for a reason.

@Sugarfree23 some companies do care about working mothers (and equality in general) but I don't think allowing WFH to accommodate childcare is the answer to equality. I believe it actually harms women's career development.

Think about it this way. There's a promotion on the cards..

Gill & John both 35 have same qualifications & similar experience.

John's in the office - gets on with the boss has a bit of banter.

Gills rarely in office wfh most days, boss doesn't mind her having late lunch for mid afternoon school run.

Who's getting the promotion ?

And just as I've written that I've remembered back in the day the 'in' crowd were the golfers. Not heard of an after work round of golf in a long long time. But women (me included) do need to be careful the office isn't the new golf course.

Pre-Covid my kids went to breakfast and after school club because they were hitting that slightly awkward age of being a bit too old for childminders with the real littlies so after-school club with a bucket of lego and their peers was the way forward.

After Covid the numbers had fallen so much that this was all stopped because it was no longer economically viable. This meant that local childminders were all full and even if they had spaces - they weren't going to want to take a nearly-teen with some behaviour that needs firm boundaries (it's not challenging - it would be challenging if not for deathly consistency and constantly being on the ball with boundary pushing). We're not the only school in the local area who lost all their wraparound provision either - a fair few could no longer make it work, or had it run by private providers who pulled out - and as a result, me and DH alternate who is at home for the after school timeslots (he's moved his work day across to be able to do school drop off) depending on our work commitments at the time.

Alternative would have been that one of us chucked our career under the bus - I've already done that for the preschool and infant years, just got back into the workplace and really didn't want to do that - plus think that it's important for the kids to see Mum working and enjoying a job as well.

Both of us have moved into post-pandemic jobs where this has been agreed from the outset with work management. I'm scrupulous in documenting when I've taken time out to go and do a school pickup and where that time's been claimed back from - just in case there ever are any queries raised and to quantify I'm pulling my weight fully (not that it would ever be an issue with my team). Would be hard to go back fully into the office anyway as they've closed half our bases and run on a model of staff being mixed about who is WFH and in the office.

Kids are older (tweenagers) so generally come home, do homework and then by then it's the end of the working day anyway. DH is in an office in the attic conversion so he keeps an eye and ear if the kids are upstairs, and I work in an office downstairs so tend to have my office door open (unless I'm on a call) so can keep an eye and ear open and interact with the kids. Yes, I probably do slightly more of the parenting load in terms of signing reading diaries and consent slips waved under my nose, but DH does more of the parenting load in terms of taxi service and organising the million and one school payments for random theme days and stuff.

It's interesting so many are focused on the parents ability to cope not if the child will receive adequate care and stimulation.

@jannier I think the couple of hours after school when they are tired anyway it's not so much an issue. The issue with afterschool is its a PITA to plan meetings around someone having a mid afternoon break.

Or the very odd random day like the poster who mentioned her DH doing it during the In-service days, or a child being ill when all they want is to watch telly anyway.

But trying to do it with a preschooler or 3/4 days a week in holidays must result in bored kids

I do it - I've also used childcare in the past, but my kids hate it - they'd prefer to sort themselves out at home, and now they're a bit older it does feel silly sending them to a childminder.

I'm always fully upfront about my availability though - and I'm high enough up the food chain that I can do that - if a job can't accommodate school runs, or requires me to be glued to my desk for fixed hours it's just not going to work for me - I'm a single mother, and where I live means that the kids getting themselves to school, or sharing with another parent isn't an option.

I'm very flexible with my working hours in return - starting at 5am to sync with Asia, and happy to take meetings in the evening to work with the US.

And yes, I feel guilty about the kids not getting out more, so in holidays I'll often knock off early so we can get out and do things, same at the weekend, and we always eat dinner together.

if the choice is keeping your job or sparing your children a few days' boredom during school holidays, which do you think most moms will choose?
It's not absolutely perfect but perfect should not be the enemy of good. Many more moms have the opportunity now to continue in FT work by WFH and it's a bit disappointing that so many here view it so negatively.

It's not absolutely perfect but perfect should not be the enemy of good. Many more moms have the opportunity now to continue in FT work by WFH and it's a bit disappointing that so many here view it so negatively.

But it's not a a solution or a blanket remedy for equality in the workplace. There is evidence that it's having a detrimental effect on some women's careers.

Widespread WFH is too new IMO to say anything definitive about the long-term impact. And we saw millions of moms quit their jobs even during lockdown because they couldn't juggle it with their childcare responsibilities. It's an alternative that works for some families, not a blanket solution.
Yes, the lack of face time and the missed banter in the office is a concern but women were doing all of those things pre-COVID and not making up much ground in the workplace. I still think the more moms in FT work, the better the leverage to push for systemic changes.

Widespread WFH is too new IMO to say anything definitive about the long-term impact. And we saw millions of moms quit their jobs even during lockdown because they couldn't juggle it with their childcare responsibilities. It's an alternative that works for some families, not a blanket solution.

But there is a significant amount of research that shows women's careers were disproportionately negatively impacted during the pandemic due to juggling childcare and WFH.
And there is research that shows that the increase in WFH has actually meant women picking up even more of the unpaid work in their household.

Flexible working is really important and does make a difference but that's not what being debated here. The OP is talking about WFH while caring for young children.
Also, for flexible working to really work we need more men to take it. That's when we'd really see a difference.

100% agree you can't work from home with kids. I tried it during the pandemic. Not possible to do either well. Get childcare or change hours or, god forbid,rope in the Dad.

Exactly we're always the one's disadvantaged with any changes to wfh / return to offices

Amy8

you seem to be confusing being pragmatic and looking out for oneself with agreeing with a corporate world-view. Most of us just want to provide for our families and our doing so within the existing system. Accepting reality that working while also caring for young children is untenable does not mean agreeing that the working world is not biased against women. we have to work harder and be better because the system is set up for us to fail.

WFH has advantage of being able to cut commuting time and costs, being able to get on with work while awaiting deliveries or have people working in your house (from regular maintenance like boiler service to cleaners), even bunging the washing in, and yes it does help with after school care for tweens who can get themselves home but not quite old enough to be home alone.

But I'll stand firm and say people are deluded if they think being unavailable in the middle of the afternoon or being distracted by babies isn't going to harm their career progression.

Sometimes after 3:30pm. (But DS is almost ten and is a creature of habit. He usually just wants a snack and then an hour of gaming time after school so it's rarely an issue.)

But what actually is happening is targeting a lot of hardworking mothers for balancing it all - the system needs changing

What do you mean the 'system has to change'? What needs to.change?

We should be looking at everything from the length of the workday, the way breaks are structured, the location of toilet facilities to workspaces, the way annual leave is allocated, etc. everything was designed for a male workforce with women available to be caregivers.

that doesn’t mean an individual woman should put her own livelihood in jeopardy by multitasking work and home during the same hours.

I have agile working so work in the community and at home when I can. Luckily I've two teenagers and an primary age child. Im also a lone parent. Pre-covid I couldn't get a job to fit around my childcare demands so WFH has been a blessing in disguise for me. I wouldn't now look for a job that wouldn't accommodate this. It is difficult at points but it's the only way I can do it! I do feel it limits my career prospects as I notice more and more roles, especially in my sector, looking to place workers back in the office. If this was the case though I would be well and truly stuck.

Where I work it’s the same for everyone - as it should be. Anyone can make a flexible working request and each application will be considered based on the needs of the company. Annual leave is allocated fairly - main holiday periods are on a rotation basis - if you have two weeks in august one year, you might not get it the next.