Wedding/marriage traditions

[Emmaheather]

Does anyone else find the number of women planning to marry in white and change their name shocking? Although I can see the beauty and glamour of a white dress, and the practicality of changing names, these are traditions which have such a strong association with the suppression of women and misogyny I find them unacceptable. I wanted to share a surname with my children so they have both mine and their dad's.
I'd be interested to hear how people who view themselves as feminist reconcile this with marriage traditions which a reflection of a male dominated society and women's suppression. I would challenge other behaviours which are sexist or misogynist but this isn't something I feel i can ask friends about for fear of offending. I think it's important to give up these traditions given their history but I'm surprised to find myself in the minority among peers. I'd be really interested in others views on this.

I have an issue with quite a few wedding traditions, changing names, father giving away the bride (thankfully not a thing in my country, the couple walk down the aisle together instead), the weird thing about white being for virgins but nowadays no one cares about that so its not that big an issue any more.

Less than half of women change their name when they get married in my country now which is good, I certainly won't change mine if I get married, my youngest has my surname and his dad can change his if he wants to share our name (oldest has her dad's name which I regretted soon after deciding)

The tradition of the white wedding dress actually began when Queen Victoria wore a white dress to her wedding. Who knows if she was a virgin at the time 🤷🏼‍♀️ the idea that white wedding dresses are for virgins may have been created afterwards.

As for giving away the bride and the bride changing her name to match her husband's, originally that is about the possession of a woman moving from one man (her father) to another (her husband).

However, nowadays since women have a lot more rights and choices in life, the meaning behind these traditions is not as impactful. For example a woman might take her husband's name, but does that mean she is now literally his property? In the past, yes, but nowadays (and at least in socially progressive nations), no.

Feminism is about women being able to live their lives and make their own choices, without being oppressed in any way.

I consider myself a feminist, I got married and double-barrelled my name with my husband's, not with the belief of ownership/misogyny, but because that's what I wanted to do with my name. He kept his name as that was what he wanted to do with his name, and that's fine.

Changing one's name is a very personal decision and is not necessarily about bowing to misogyny.

I can't wait to change my name. My surname is from a long line of abusive alcoholic men. It would be nice to not have that reminder.

Surely @Emmaheather you are not being a feminist by having an issue with women changing their names or wearing white? Is not the whole point choice? I chose to get married in a gold trouser suit, my friend in a meringue dress. There are many things to get angry over but women making choices for themselves (even if born from misogyny) is not one of them.

I've been married for most of my life now but really wish I could've had a civil partnership as that seems a more equal way of committing to one another.

Mine was a civil wedding I did not wear a white gown.

I did take my husband's surname simply because mine was unusual and awkward and his is common and easy to spell :-)

There’s some aspect of the patriarchy that affect my life and therefore fuck me off. Wearing a white dress, taking my husbands surname and having my dad walk me down the aisle didn’t and don’t affect my life in any way. I sacked of the wedding traditions that didn’t work for me (I spent the night before the wedding with my husband for example) but kept the ones that I wanted (e.g. I have a wonderful relationship with my dad, it was just me and him at home for many years, and I wanted him to have that moment). So that’s just my reasoning really, which is what I assume you are asking?

Of course, everyone should make their own choices. I just don't understand why people would make these choices and so thought helpful to hear people's views.
I guess I do wonder whether misogyny is so in grained it's not recognised.

I actually changed my name because I thought it'd be more practical - to have a married couple (and potentially family) have the same surname. I appreciate I'm possibly in the minority but I was not particularly attached to my previous name, and my OH was, so I saw it as purely a practical thing. And as it was tradition, I guess it made things easier. I was quite likely very disillusioned with the capacity of various companies to deal with anything outside of "the norm" with admin - I seemed to run into a series of administrative fuckups around that time so saw it as a small attempt at reducing further risk!

I was quite young and didn't really know much about feminism at the time. I probably wouldn't make the same choice now as it's seen as more political, and the options for family names are a bit more mainstream (double-barrelling might have suited in theory, but the resulting name was a weird mouthful! )

I also didn't do some of the traditions I didn't like.

I totally get that and sorry to hear about your paternal family.
Why not change your name any way? Do you need to wait for a man for that? I've heard other woman but never men say this.

I quite like these traditions - I was extremely proud to have my dad walk me down the aisle, he is one of the finest men I know. I was happy to take my husbands surname as I like the idea of becoming one family. Had I insisted on keeping my surname my husband wouldn't have minded. I had no problem wearing white either.

I happily made these choices because I am free to do so - there was no misogyny to play at all, because if there were I absolutely wouldn't stand for it!

I suppose we did quite a lot of the traditions - I changed my name as logistically thought it would be easier for the whole family to share the same name, and wasn't at all attached to mine. DH wouldn't have cared either way.
Wore white just because I never wear anything white really so thought it would be a nice opportunity, and found the dress I loved in white) though aware I never really wear gold or bright orange either 🤷‍♀️
Dad walked me down the aisle as he always dreamed of it, wasn't originally going to but could see it meant a lot to him.
I was there before the ceremony though greeting the guests and we did all the family photos before everyone arrived etc.
I think a wedding is a nice opportunity to do something traditional (if you want to), it's all about choice right! There's not much tradition around nowadays (not a bad thing).

White doesn't have anything to do with virginity, as pointed out above. It was a sign of wealth, luxury and status.

I do agree about the changing name thing. I'm in Canada where it is less common to take your husband's name, and in Quebec it is illegal. It surprises me that the UK clings more strongly to this tradition, as it's such a feminist country in many respects.

I can reconcile the white dress, esp as many are far from modest, do not projecting chaste etc. More than 30 years ago, I did not change my name and I was in a minority. It wasn’t difficult, though.

I do find the modern thing of non being married but kids having the surname of the male partner odd though. If you don’t get married why buy into a process of carrying on the man’s surname? Both names sure, but …

I'm all in favour of there being no pressure or expectation to change your name. I felt under no pressure (from my husband or anyone else) to take his name. I did it because I had no particular attachment to mine and thought it would be more convenient for us both and any future children to have the same name. Not a fan of double-barrelling, and I'd put up with 30 years of people pronouncing and spelling mine incorrectly.

As for the white dress, I like them and they are traditional.

I actually don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with enjoying traditions out of choice, when for you they don't represent whatever people's motivations for them were in the past. Do you assume that everyone who enjoys Christmas traditions has 'ingrained' Christian beliefs? I love Christmas, and I'm as atheist as they come!

If changing your name was only about practicality, or about choosing the “nicer” name then surely you’d expect as many men to want to take their wive’s names and it very rarely happens.

Changing your name affects women in lots of little, subtle ways.

Yesterday I was talking to DH about work. I said, "oh I had to send this one to our lawyer, Bob Flumpy [[names changed to protect the innocent]". And DH said, "OMG Flumpy works with you, I haven't seen him in years, tell him you're married to me and that I'd love to go for a beer". Now if he'd changed his name to Bob Smith that wouldn't have happened. As well as a lovely friendship, both these men have good jobs, with contacts, government etc. So that connection could be useful as well as fun.

I've seen it happen with industry contacts. Peripheral people don't know that Kate Smith is now Kate Jones and when they're looking for a contractor or to headhunt, it doesn't happen.

It's also more funding admin.

If changing your name was only about practicality, or about choosing the “nicer” name then surely you’d expect as many men to want to take their wive’s names and it very rarely happens.

I'm not claiming it is only about that. Of course it isn't. I'm only saying that's why I personally did it. Or at least that's how I thought of it at the time (20 years ago). I'm a lot more feminist now (largely thanks to MN!). If I were getting married now, I wonder if I'd make the same choice. I suspect I might opt not to change it, but that would probably be because I'd feel like I was being a 'bad feminist' to change it, even though my original justifications for changing it would still be the same.

I didn’t change my name immediately, I did double barrel it on my passport eventually though because DD has DH’s surname and I just figured it might make life easier if I need to travel alone with her (family abroad so it’s feasible, though hasn’t happened yet). I use either my original surname, DH’s surname or the double barrelled one variously and depending on the situation - I keep thinking I should pick a version and stick with it but it’s been over three years now and I’m still flitting!

I do feel a bit annoyed with myself re DD’s surname - I went path of least resistance there and I regret it. Her first and middle names are my choice/ from my side and they did actually sound best with DH surname, plus there’s absolutely nobody left from my family that I still have contact with with my surname anymore (I didn’t grow up with my birth parents) whereas she has grandparents and cousins etc with the surname we went with, but even so I’m a bit pissed off with myself!

I wore white. It looked fabulous and I didn’t think any more deeply about it than that really! Certainly wasn’t anything to do with virginity, given I was pregnant at the wedding. No dad to give me away, I asked my (adoptive) brother to ‘walk with me’ - I needed a hand to hold and my sisters had other roles in the wedding so I liked that all 3 of them were included. It wasn’t anything to do with being given away for me, I’m aware of the roots of the tradition but honestly, my relationship with my brother and how much it meant to him was more important to me at that moment.

Changing names affects research publications too. Basically our systems are set up to have one person keep the same name for life, with some exceptions for women, although that's not always straightforward either. It's going to be a long process to change it.

I meant to add... doing things because of the expectation of being a good feminist is just imposing a different set of rules about what women should be seen to do. I'm not a big fan of that idea.

I never wear white as it's an impractical colour, and since I knew the virginal white thing was BS.

I chose to have my father escort me to my husband but also had the ceremony start with the groom being escorted by his mother. The reason for this was to make it equal but also to ensure that my father, who lives in the US since he separated from my mum, didn't feel snubbed.

I chose to change my surname to husband's as his was cool, and mine didn't work well as a hyphenated surname. Like many others said, I wanted my kids and I to have matching surnames.

'If changing your name was only about practicality, or about choosing the “nicer” name then surely you’d expect as many men to want to take their wive’s names and it very rarely happens'

Well exactly

God these wedding threads are tiresome. I don't mean you OP - I agree with what you wrote. I mean all the responses about CHOICE, as if choices are made in a vacuum, and the accusation that anyone who questions these misogynist traditions is a BAD feminist. If it's all about 'choice', and everything is so free and fair and up for grabs, then why do virtually no men EVER ditch their own last names and take on their wives names, or change their title, or wear a flashy ring to show they're off the market, or get walked down the aisle by anyone?

Look, do what you want, and it's none of my business, but I do think that it's perfectly fair to hold marriage and all of its traditions up to a robust feminist critique, rather than just throwing 'choice' at everything as if it answered every question. It's possible to be a feminist, and still make very unfeminist choices. Just own it

I don’t think the misogyny is ingrained i think a lot of women don’t see walking down the aisle now as anything to do with years ago women being transferred as property. I know I was thinking how nice it was for me and my dad to have a special moment before the wedding as usually it’s me and my mother too all the time and he barely gets a word in! And I was thinking how great my husband looked and how much I loved him when I reached the top of the aisle. So I didn’t have anything to reconcile with myself as a feminist.

I’d wonder more about women going to Dubai on holiday as feminists knowing how badly women are treated there.

Re : Dubai - nephew lives there. DH won’t visit because of overall human rights record. Not even just about women’s rights there really

I changed my name, but not mindlessly. It was important to me to have the same name as my children (I know that isn't important to everyone, but is to me). It was also important to DH. We didn't want to double barrel. My surname was the same as DH's first name, so if he'd changed his name he'd have been William Williams for example, which is ridiculous. Half his friends changed their names in some way after marriage so it wouldn't have been a big deal, but I wouldn't expect him to be happy with a silly name (my name is occasionally a surname as well, and I wouldn't have changed my surname to that!).
Therefore, either one of us wouldn't have the same name as DC (which we didn't want to happen), or I changed my name. I suppose we could have come up with a whole new name and both changed to that, but that seemed a bit unnecessary tbh.

I wore green and walked down the aisle with DH rather than my dad though, if it matters.