Is wfh a feminist issue?

[thevery]

I'm reading an interesting book atm called In Her nature by Rachel Hewitt. It is a sort of mix of memoir and history, about women's relationship with the outdoors and particularly with outdoor pursuits like mountaineering, running etc. Its fascinating and talks about how women have been excluded from these activities and made to feel uncomfortable outdoors- Hewitt makes the point that sexual harassment of women outdoors increased during the pandemic etc.

It made he think about wfh and how, whilst it had many advantages, is it another way in which women are sort of retreating from public life and could it be a step backwards for women. I know many women who have switched to wfh since covid, more than I do men, although i know many men wfh too. But the advantages women describe are things like, being able to do the school run, being able to stick some washing in at lunchtime etc. I wonder/worry if this will result in women not advancing in the work place and feeling further pressure to do both domestic work and paid work.

I'm not sure more wfh is good for women.

[BiologicalKitty]

I feel completely the opposite, wfh has enabled me to build a solid career with great prospects. I work within a team scattered across the UK, we bob in and out of the office whenever it suits. My male colleagues mention doing the school run, supporting their female partners in various ways, taking aged relatives to appointments, etc. So in that sense I feel it's a bit of an equaliser, and my own caring responsibilities haven't held me back in any way whatsoever. It's been revutionary in fact.

[TeenLifeMum]

I’ve seen the opposite. The number of dads doing school runs increased significantly as more men were working from home. My dh and his close friend both wfh whereas friend’s wife is a teacher and I work for the nhs and do a mix of on site and one day at home. In my experience it’s given men more opportunities to reduce commute and be available to family life much earlier in the evening. Dh now takes dc to clubs.

[TeenLifeMum]

I should add, overall it’s helped dh and I balance our responsibilities more evenly.

[thevery]

Oh, fascinating that it's actually the opposite effect in some cases!

[Bluemuf]

Yes, I think it will be huge with regard to halting/slowing women's progress in the work place.

Many will argue that it provides opportunities for women to continue to work and that may well be true, but over time, men without the same caring commitments will return and be there to benefit from the networking and opportunities that come up when you're face to face.

There will be some people who can domit from home, but for the average person it will be much easier for those who are in the workplace to take advantage of chance encounters and shared experiences.

[Spendonsend]

My DH recently negotiated to work from home. I genuinley felt liberated. For the first time he shares the chores and is in for the school taxi at the end of the day and I can get out into the world more.

[LolaSmiles]

My experience is there's more dads doing the school run now more places are allowing some WFH or flexible working. To me this is a good thing because it means that it's chipping away at the idea that women (because it's usually mother's) are the ones who'll go part time, give up their career, swap to a usually lower paying school hours job.

Anything that creates a situation where more men are doing a more equitable share of child-related and domestic responsibilities is a good thing to me.

[birdsongismyfave]

If I couldn't wfh and do the school run and put the washing machine on and all those things while my husband goes to work dinners and networks, I'd have to be a Sahm to support his career. He advanced so much in the years I took out for mat leave, covid having toddlers at home and part time that I won't be able to catch up.

[FatAgainItsLettuceTime]

WFH is a huge benefit for parents in general but certainly in those households where women are the default parent.

I'm able to drop DD at school, pick her up if DH is in the office which he has to do 1 week in 4.

Compared to when I worked in the office where i had the 'will I make it in time' panic every day trying to get from the office to nursery before it closed.

It's also opened a lot of employers eyes to the concept that mon-Fri 9-5 isn't the only way to do it. I probably work more hours now I'm at home because I tend to flex my days a lot more, as opposed to when I was in the office where I could only work explicitly the hours I was contracted for as I was running in just on time after drop off and running out exactly on time for pick up. I would also have to take leave for things like doctors appts or school events, now I just attend those then pick up an hour or 2 in the evening after DD is in bed.

[BiologicalKitty]

I don't understand the argument that men will be back in the office to network and benefit from water-cooler chat etc. In my workplace, people pass like ships in the night, we don't have set days in, managers operate from a different site to their teams, and we still rely on Teams calls for every meeting. There are no chance encounters really. But maybe I'm missing the subtleties.

[PuttingDownRoots]

DH hybrid works. Since his office is 5hrs away, this means he is only away Monday afternoon to Thursday evening instead of Sunday afternoon to Friday afternoon generally. Sometimes he's at home all week, sometimes, especially in Winter, he does 2 weeks in the office then a spell wfh. But the choice is very beneficial for family life.

I don't like the house becoming his office bit, but overall it is beneficial.

[BiologicalKitty]

I actually feel like the pushback against wfh is because it is an equaliser, and benefits women and disabled people.

[FloorWipes]

Wfh is of course mainly available as an option to a small subset of privileged women. Most people cannot wfh.

[Tallesttiptoes]

Interesting point and I would agree with others about it opening up the possibility of managing a career with higher level opportunities while still being able to be around for kids, manage household stuff etc. In discussions I’ve been party to at work the visibility issue gets bandied around a lot - how will effective mentoring of younger people (and women) work if everyone is away from office space but I guess this is only an issue if you have a split of home and office based workers by choice - perhaps women might opt to stay at home more - thus missing out in person mentoring and informal development (post meeting debriefs, side discussions).

[Greenfairydust]

''@BiologicalKitty
I actually feel like the pushback against wfh is because it is an equaliser, and benefits women and disabled people.''

Completely agree.

Office presenteeism and long hours culture was always based on what benefits/suits men.

It was always implied that men could do this because they had a female partner who would be running the home and looking after the children while they focus on work.

WFH is suitable for most people who have office-type jobs as the pandemic showed and it is really beneficial for people with caring responsibilities and long term health conditions/disabilities. Removing the need to commute frees time for picking kids up from school and so on.

I am having that issue in my workplace. Commute for me is 4 hours or more in total. I took the job because I was told at the interview (the covid lockdowns had ended already) that I would only need to attend the office maybe once every 3 months. Then last month I was told I would need to be there once a month, then this month I was told to travel once a week just to ''show my face and be visible''...

I have a disability/long term health condition so I have now had to declare this with HR and I have made an official request for remote working to continue as it was but I am now job hinting again because I don't want to stay in this organisation after this. I had to disclose that my condition was made worse by a recent sexual assault and this brought everything back and It was a horrid experience to have to talk about it and I felt like I was going through the assault again...

[Greenfairydust]

''@FloorWipes
Wfh is of course mainly available as an option to a small subset of privileged women. Most people cannot wfh.''


That really is not true. Most office jobs can be done remotely and that includes lower paid/starter roles like admin.

It also does not just help women, it is also beneficial to men who have long term health issues/disabilities.

I think it is really sad to see the women take the stance that ''well if I can't work from home, why should you be able to?"...

[Shylo]

I was en early adopter of wfh long before the pandemic - 15 years ago I started wfh two days a week and at that time I was one of just two people in a division of 150 doing it so it absolutely singled me out as an accommodation made for a working mum . The endless comments about working part time were draining and I also had to work harder to stay in the loop with the team because I wasn’t there 5 days a week like them. it enabled me to continue working and earning but I’d say it did hinder my career because i was an outlier who somehow seemed less committed

over the years I strongly advocated for flexible working for everyone, because when it becomes the norm it no longer singles out women as somehow working differently compared to their peers - and covid has made that happen! In my office I see as many men home working as women,I see men arranging their week to cover kids and as a knock on I also see more men taking all the paternity leave they are allowed

i don’t see this trend changing - it’s mainly older men who hang around the office all week. The younger generations want a more flexible life and that’s a great thing as far as I’m concerned

[FloorWipes]

@Greenfairydust

''@FloorWipes
Wfh is of course mainly available as an option to a small subset of privileged women. Most people cannot wfh.''


That really is not true. Most office jobs can be done remotely and that includes lower paid/starter roles like admin.

It also does not just help women, it is also beneficial to men who have long term health issues/disabilities.

I think it is really sad to see the women take the stance that ''well if I can't work from home, why should you be able to?"...

Perhaps depends what we mean by privileged but the fact that WFH and hybrid working are experienced by a minority of the population is just a statistical fact.

[YukoandHiro]

@TeenLifeMum

I should add, overall it’s helped dh and I balance our responsibilities more evenly.

Yes I feel the same - I feel much more equal now and that we share the domestic mental load a little better. Although not as much as I'd like, inevitably.

[LolaSmiles]

over the years I strongly advocated for flexible working for everyone, because when it becomes the norm it no longer singles out women as somehow working differently compared to their peers - and covid has made that happen! In my office I see as many men home working as women,I see men arranging their week to cover kids and as a knock on I also see more men taking all the paternity leave they are allowed

i don’t see this trend changing - it’s mainly older men who hang around the office all week. The younger generations want a more flexible life and that’s a great thing as far as I’m concerned
Same here.

The idea of being married to a job and putting work above family and a life is thankfully being challenged.

There's many areas struggling to recruit at the moment. If they want skilled and experienced workers then they need to accept that workers are looking for flexible working.

[Spendonsend]

@Greenfairydust

''@FloorWipes
Wfh is of course mainly available as an option to a small subset of privileged women. Most people cannot wfh.''


That really is not true. Most office jobs can be done remotely and that includes lower paid/starter roles like admin.

It also does not just help women, it is also beneficial to men who have long term health issues/disabilities.

I think it is really sad to see the women take the stance that ''well if I can't work from home, why should you be able to?"...

I think it is true. In that lots of women work in care, , cleaning and retail. Two massive professional areas are nursing and teaching.

Obviously its great for office workers.

[Prettypaisleyslippers]

I work in a heavily male dominated industry, we’ve been WFH for over 20 years, nothing to do with gender.

[Zeonlywayisup]

Massively easier now we both work from home and if anything dh does more not less of the domestic grind. I honestly hope we never have to be on site again.

[deydododatdodontdeydo]

It was better for me when DH WFH (and him, due to a long commute).
Now he is back in the office he doesn't get home in time to help cook and isn't around in the day to do little jobs and things like a quick vacuum, so I have to do them.

[Bluemuf]

I've been to a meeting of the executive of a chairty today. Staff almost all women, most wfh.

This is a presentig a real dilemma for them. The older staff and parents love it. The younger staff really dont love it, they hate it and they also hate being the only person in the office when they go in. They know they're missing out on so much that their older colleagues benefited from at the same stage in their career.

So, the board know that many of their experienced staff will retire if they change wfh, but they also can't keep younger staff who are miserbale. In this organisation women are disproportionately affected, I suspect it's less of an issue where there are more men in a workforce.