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Feminism: chat

SNP leadership candidate wants to legalise sex selective abortion

39 replies

CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 12/03/2023 09:49

Just read that Humza Yousaf has pledged to legalise sex-selective abortion if he becomes the SNP leader. Surely he can't get away with that?!

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MistyGreenAndBlue · 12/03/2023 09:51

I thought the SNP didn't believe in sex
Only gender feels.

Now I'm totally confused.

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Whowaswotsit · 12/03/2023 09:52

Why? Who is in favour of that?

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SirSamVimesCityWatch · 12/03/2023 09:53

Eh? Is there are source for this?

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CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 12/03/2023 09:54
OP posts:
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SirSamVimesCityWatch · 12/03/2023 11:38

From that article:

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Humza Yousaf commits to introducing abortion up to birth and sex-selective abortion in Scotland
Mar 10, 2023 NEWS



Humza Yousaf commits to introducing abortion up to birth and sex-selective abortion to Scotland
Humza Yousaf, who is running to be the next First Minister of Scotland, has committed to removing abortion from the criminal law, which would introduce abortion on demand, for any reason, up in birth in Scotland – along with legalising sex-selective abortion.

The three candidates for the next First Minister of Scotland were approached by campaign group, Back Off Scotland, asking them whether they supported three changes to abortion legislation. Back Off Scotland is the Scottish arm of the Back Off campaign, which is run by the UK’s largest abortion provider, the British Pregnancy Advisory Service (BPAS).

The third of the three proposed law changes is “removing abortion from the criminal law”.

Humza Yousaf then announced on Twitter that he would support all three changes, including “bringing forward decriminalisation proposals in current parliament term”.

Abortion on demand, for any reason, up to birth

Currently abortion is a crime under common law in Scotland. While abortion is technically a crime, the Abortion Act provides exemptions under which abortion can take place. This in practice allows abortion to be available on request through to the 24-week limit outlined in the Abortion Act.

The abortion provider, BPAS, is campaigning for abortion to be fully ‘decriminalised’ in Scotland, England and Wales. In England and Wales, this would involve repealing sections 58 and 59 of the Offences Against the Person Act along with the Infant Life Preservation Act. In Scotland, this would involve introducing a new law clarifying that abortion is not a crime.

As the Abortion Act 1967 was passed to create exemptions to criminal law in Scotland, ‘decriminalising’ abortion would involve introducing a new law clarifying that abortion is not a crime and this would make the Abortion Act 1967 redundant in Scotland.

This change in law would scrap the current 24-week time limit for abortion – and abortion would be available on demand, for any reason, up to birth. The upper time limit would be completely abolished.

Abortion provider BPAS, who have been campaigning for this law change, have made it explicit that they are campaigning to remove all gestational time limits for abortion.

This position was affirmed by their then CEO, Ann Furedi, who at the launch of the campaign to ‘decriminalise’ abortion stated, “I want to be very, very clear and blunt … there should be no legal upper limit”.

The proposed change to the law would leave Scotland with one of the most extreme abortion regimes in the world. The change would position Scotland drastically away from the European Union, where the most common abortion time limit among EU countries is 12 weeks.

The proposal is also completely out of line with where women stand on the issue. Polling from Savanta ComRes on whether time limits for abortion should be increased showed that only 1% of women in Great Britain wanted the time limit to be extended to more than 24 weeks and 1% wanted it to be increased right through to birth, in contrast to 70% of women who favoured a reduction in time limits.

There was an enormous backlash when the head of the Royal College of Midwives committed to supporting BPAS’ campaign to ‘decriminalise’ abortion and introduce abortion up to birth.

Following that backlash, high-profile politicians appear to have been wary about supporting making the law change proposed by the campaign, that is until Humza Yousaf announced his support for that law change this week.

Sex-selective abortion would also be legalised

In their letter to the three leadership candidates, Back Off Scotland specifically outline some of the current provisions in the Abortion Act that would be made redundant if abortion was ‘decriminalised’ in Scotland.

They state “Currently, abortion in Scotland is not a right. Women still need the approval of two doctors, must meet one of the five grounds for having an abortion… all because abortion is governed by the criminal law.”

As Back Off Scotland have identified, the Abortion Act provides for abortion to be performed only under specific grounds.

Sex selection is not one of the current grounds under which abortion can be performed and, therefore, sex-selective abortion is currently illegal in Scotland.

If the Abortion Act was made redundant, abortion would not be restricted to happening only under the grounds outlined in the Act and abortion could happen for any reason in Scotland.

Without this legal safeguard, sex-selective abortion would be made legal in Scotland.

So, he hasn't said he will make sex selection abortion legal, but that he will get rid of the abortion act. Getting rid of the abortion act could in theory make sex selection abortion legal. But it doesn't automatically mean that it will, as there is nothing to say he wouldn't replace the current abortion act with other legislation which deals with the sex selection issue.

It would be worth pressing him on - how will the SNP ensure that they aren't opening the door for sex-selective abortion? What safeguards will they put in place? Etc. But as it stands it's not that he's actually advocating for it.

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SirSamVimesCityWatch · 12/03/2023 11:39

Gah, bold fail. Last two paragraphs are mine, the rest is c&p from the linked article.

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UnattendedPotato · 12/03/2023 12:51

So the source is an extreme pro-life anti-abortion group (check out their trustees). Smells like clickbaity inflammatory stuff to me . (Which in no way means I support that leadership candidate) have they written about the other candidates?

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Happylittlechicken · 12/03/2023 21:34

But hold on, don’t the SNP believe sex is assigned at birth? So. How can there have sex selected abortions of unborn babies? According to them , no one knows what the sex us until a baby is born. They are just showing they don’t believe the gender ideology, they just hate women.

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GrumpyPanda · 12/03/2023 22:05

Not going to click on a forced birther site - did you do that on purpose? And decriminalizing abortion makes solid good sense. Forget about that vile "up to birth" language - in reality abortion figures vary hardly at all between countries with specific tightly regulated third trimester rules and those with complete decriminalization. Either way, these are as a rule much wanted pregnancies and only likely to be terminated under tragic circumstances.

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NumberTheory · 13/03/2023 01:16

Sounds good to me.

I don’t think women should be criminalized for seeking an abortion even if their reason for an abortion is that they think their life would be worse if they had a girl instead of a boy or vice versa.

If selective abortion is an issue because of the treatment or view of a class of people then we need to work on making the treatment or view of that class better, not insisting individual women bear the burden.

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Seventytwosunsetstrip · 13/03/2023 01:33

Happylittlechicken · 12/03/2023 21:34

But hold on, don’t the SNP believe sex is assigned at birth? So. How can there have sex selected abortions of unborn babies? According to them , no one knows what the sex us until a baby is born. They are just showing they don’t believe the gender ideology, they just hate women.

Exactly.

This just shows how ridiculous this gender-bending nonsense is.

The party is becoming a joke.

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ZoeCM · 13/03/2023 01:39

Might be controversial, but isn't sex-selective abortion already legal to all intents and purposes? Surely the mother just lies about her reason for wanting one?

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MarshaMelrose · 13/03/2023 01:50

He doesn't want to legalise sex selective abortions as the title rather goadily states. But that becomes an option flowing from abolishing the Abortion Act. He could, of course, then introduce more legislation to then ban that. But then other people would start to want to add other things into the act and they'd be back to pretty much where they started. I'd think it would be better to just amend the present Act which makes any changes more transparent to the electors.
I dont sense much appetite for allowing abortion with no checks whatsoever.

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PretzelKnot · 13/03/2023 02:39

ZoeCM · 13/03/2023 01:39

Might be controversial, but isn't sex-selective abortion already legal to all intents and purposes? Surely the mother just lies about her reason for wanting one?

Not controversial at all. If “I don’t want to continue with this pregnancy” gets you an abortion but “I don’t want to continue with this pregnancy because it’s a boy/girl” doesn’t, it is obvious that sex-selection abortions take place. There is no way to prevent them.

While ending a pregnancy because of the sex of the foetus is a pretty shit move in my opinion, it would happen all the time and it is ridiculous to think it would need special legislation to be allowed. Just outrage click bait.

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NumberTheory · 13/03/2023 04:50

Happylittlechicken · 12/03/2023 21:34

But hold on, don’t the SNP believe sex is assigned at birth? So. How can there have sex selected abortions of unborn babies? According to them , no one knows what the sex us until a baby is born. They are just showing they don’t believe the gender ideology, they just hate women.

What’s been proposed doesn’t mention sex at all. They’ve said they want to let women (my word) make up their own mind about whether to have an abortion or not without any policing of their decision by the state.

Which is a long way from hating women.

There’s plenty to criticize the SNP for in terms of their view of women, but proposing the decriminalization of abortion isn’t one of them.

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Aphrathestorm · 13/03/2023 09:17

I'm confused. The abortion act is reserved. So it can't be altered by holyrood?

But I know that Scots (criminal) law has always been separate (even pre devolution).

So they are saying they can change the Scots criminal law in a way that effectively changes the abortion act?

Surely this would end like GRR in a section 35?

Humza is no friend of women.

The community he represents (not his constituency) would be very happy indeed that abortions could happen on demand up to term (ie after parents go to private 'gender' scans).

There's nothing to see here. Nothing at all.

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NumberTheory · 13/03/2023 16:54

I'm confused. The abortion act is reserved. So it can't be altered by holyrood?

So this is all just posturing on both sides?

That's a bit disappointing.

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Twizbe · 13/03/2023 17:04

ZoeCM · 13/03/2023 01:39

Might be controversial, but isn't sex-selective abortion already legal to all intents and purposes? Surely the mother just lies about her reason for wanting one?

Yes and no.

If I remember correctly (and happy to be corrected) to get an abortion 2 doctors need to agree that the pregnancy has a negative impact on the woman's physical or mental health. The bar for this is really low in reality and saying 'I don't want to be pregnant' is enough.

The NHS won't tell you the sex until 20 weeks (and some trusts not even then)

A women then presenting at 21 weeks saying she wants an abortion of a otherwise healthy foetus would raise questions.

The woman would likely have already gone through at least 1 scan and 2 midwife appointments where she will have said in some form that she wants to continue the pregnancy.

If all that has changed is her knowing the sex of the baby, it could be seen as sex selective which is illegal.

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TooBigForMyBoots · 13/03/2023 17:12

It's hyperbolic shite from Forced Birthers. They're always at it OP.

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ClosedAuraOpenMind · 13/03/2023 17:16

@Aphrathestorm abortion powers are now devolved to Scotland, was one of the changes made post indyref
and decriminalising abortion sounds good to me!

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NeverDropYourMooncup · 13/03/2023 17:22

All that would happen is that NHS hospitals would no longer advise the sex of the foetus at the 20 week anomaly scan.

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pointythings · 13/03/2023 17:48

Abortion absolutely should be decriminalised. It's a health matter. Given the absolutely tiny % of abortions in the third trimester, the rest of it is really no big deal - it isn't the case that hordes of women are suddenly going to think 'Yay! I'm 28 weeks, let's get an abortion!'. I trust women to make good decisions.

I'd oppose sex selection, but I suspect in many ways that already happens and there wouldn't be a lot of change.

Don't post links from forced birthers.

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Shelefttheweb · 13/03/2023 20:15

CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 12/03/2023 09:49

Just read that Humza Yousaf has pledged to legalise sex-selective abortion if he becomes the SNP leader. Surely he can't get away with that?!

How do you do that when sex is assigned at birth?

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CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 13/03/2023 21:03

It does seem like the article is rather sensationalist, I should have looked into it further before posting! It a relief that he doesn't appear to have specifically said he would legalise sex selective abortion, although that is a worry if he does remove all limits on abortion.

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Shelefttheweb · 13/03/2023 21:05

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/03/2023 17:12

It's hyperbolic shite from Forced Birthers. They're always at it OP.

Forced birthed is such a disgusting and inaccurate term. How do you think an aborted third trimester foetus actually leaves the body? You don’t get to not give birth just because the baby is dead.

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