Why women deserve less - how are these books allowed?

[123ROLO]

I got an add on YouTube for this book

www.amazon.com/Women-Deserve-Less-Myron-Gaines/dp/B0BVDSBZYK?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

Listed as a no1 best seller. I think its found its way into not being hatespeech by a loophole of having a disclaimer saying "we are not telling you to hate women". But then goes on to list reasons to hate women.

What sad sad fragile men. I take some comfort that these mens lives must be so deeply unfulfilled if they feel the need to fill their minds with such hatred.

[Eyerollcentral]

@PeanutButterSmoothie

Surely you understand that pointing out men commit most violent and sexual crime isn’t a slur on all men?

Well, yeah, but the post I quoted wasn't doing that. It gave an anecdotal story about a 15yo boy followed by a sweeping statement about men.

A 15yo isn't even a man btw, it's a child.

Because most crime is caused by males. That just doesn’t happen when boys turn 18. Yes a 15 year old is a boy. Aside from that semantic issue, do you not think the wider point is more important than calling a 15 year old a man?

[PeanutButterSmoothie]

@Eyerollcentral

Because most crime is caused by males. That just doesn’t happen when boys turn 18. Yes a 15 year old is a boy. Aside from that semantic issue, do you not think the wider point is more important than calling a 15 year old a man?

The wider point that all men are entitled because a pp knows a child that raped another child?

[Eyerollcentral]

@PeanutButterSmoothie

The wider point that all men are entitled because a pp knows a child that raped another child?

The wider point is that most violent crime is caused by men, but you know that.

[Landndialamrhf]

@Dandilion9

I'm not going to comment on this book personally as I don't know what it's about. I find feminisam controversial though. I'm a woman not a man firstly. And a strong I'll do it myself woman at that lol. I just think there's alot about feminism that's not quite true to life. I think the dynamics of women & men should be kept to tradition for instance.
Pay gap I actually kind of believe in a little, you have to give women incentive to want to stay at home with children. I think it's important to spend atleast the first 5 years being a dedicated mum. If women earn the same of men not only do you give them the same amount of pay but the same amount of responsibility to work. And for alot of women it can be a choice to stay at home & raise children because the man is bringing home the bacon in the first place. I don't know I think it's a tricky subject to navigate. We seem to veer away from tradition more & more but the world is getting stranger & stranger.

Jesus Christ.

‘We should make women work as hard as men, but pay them less. It’s for their own good, to encourage them to stay home with their children that they definitely have because all women have children, for 5 years. I don’t know why 5 years, it’s just a number I picked, but it should determine women’s entire lives. Because they are the ones who should do the childcare. I’ve decided for me. And that should stand for all women, for no reason that I seem to be able to articulate except that it’s my interpretation of tradition’

[Justnot]

It was an example - there are millions

maybe you don’t know what the statistics are for rape, or for (the lack of) convictions but we do

its like you’ve never read a newspaper

[PrincessPeach92]

@Justnot

It was an example - there are millions

maybe you don’t know what the statistics are for rape, or for (the lack of) convictions but we do

its like you’ve never read a newspaper

Bit of a tangent, but I think that technology is likely the most feasible solution to this problem. I'm not actually convinced (despite some shocking incompetency/miscarriages of justices in particular cases) that the issue is misogyny so much as just lack of proof 'beyond reasonable doubt' and our system of 'innocent until proven guilty'.

Educating people won't provide the proof and it's always called victim blaming if anybody suggests risk assessment as a preventative measure. We need to be able to provide evidence of some kind.

[123ROLO]

No matter how much mental gymnastics you attempt if you follow Myron or anyone else from the 'manosphere' you are a misogynist. The core of all their podcasts, their 'books' and just everything they release is to belittle, humiliate, shame, and harass women. They are more and upset about women reporting abuse and rape than the actual abuse and rape taking place. On their podcasts, they ask a woman a question, if she does not agree or submit to them, they shout at her to shut up, tell her she is speaking out of 'emotion' and that as she is a woman, she cannot be reasoned with. The categorically state that men know how women work and think, but women do not understand their own actions as they are too influenced by emotion, which is why they should be under the control of a man. They are completely obvious that their unjustified anger also an emotion, and a much more dangerous and illogical emotion.

They are dangerous men, men that will find themselves in trouble one day as there is only one place those thoughts and feelings lead, abuse. But as they have convinced their followers that fake allegations and people trying to take down 'high value men' is such a common thing in society that if they do ever get in trouble, they will still be supported, and the victims will be blamed.

Just because they give some generic advice that advice such as "try to be the best you" or some something corny like that, or give some investment advice, it does not cancel out all the evil and abhorrent behaviour and statements they have made.

The amount of fan boys releasing videos on the "real Andrew Tate" where he will say something like "I'm not a misogynist I love women and think they should be protected" or a video of him picking up a child. People are like "people need to see this side of him"...Why, like that would cancel out his rape, abuse, his degusting statements about women being his property?

Please stop preaching about women needing to respect and show empathy to men's issues, I will start respecting them when they stop putting women at risk from abuse. Womens are the priority as the hatred of women is spreading and putting us in harms way.

The only solace I take is if these men do not end up in jail, they will end up miserable and alone.

[namitynamechange]

Re the book - the reason its allowed is because Free Speech. If the books takes are bad (they are) or the reasoning unsound (it is) then it is actually better to allow it to be said so it can be countered rather than not said at all.
The people crying about "double standards" and how why I hate men is allowed but this isn't etc are completely missing the point that there was a HUGE attempt to ban it and it was banned in France. WHereas this book has been publshed So if anything the double standards are working the other way. But meh.

I quite like men but holding the 2 books side by side and comparing the reasons the authors give for their respective positions is... instructive,

[namitynamechange]

@Dandilion9

I'm not going to comment on this book personally as I don't know what it's about. I find feminisam controversial though. I'm a woman not a man firstly. And a strong I'll do it myself woman at that lol. I just think there's alot about feminism that's not quite true to life. I think the dynamics of women & men should be kept to tradition for instance.
Pay gap I actually kind of believe in a little, you have to give women incentive to want to stay at home with children. I think it's important to spend atleast the first 5 years being a dedicated mum. If women earn the same of men not only do you give them the same amount of pay but the same amount of responsibility to work. And for alot of women it can be a choice to stay at home & raise children because the man is bringing home the bacon in the first place. I don't know I think it's a tricky subject to navigate. We seem to veer away from tradition more & more but the world is getting stranger & stranger.

The problem (not the only problem) is that countries like Japan/South Korea which have equal levels of development to us but are much much more "traditional" in terms of women's/men's roles in the workplace, have very high gender pay gaps, deliberate barriers to women getting into well paid positions (though many do) and an expectation that women give up their careers to have children... The birth rate is plummeting. Not only that but men are often depressed and overworked, younger ones are chronically single and often confined to their bedrooms, many young women are also lonely whilst a really high percentage of them say they never want to get married and have kids. Its a genuine demographic disaster (whereas here the birth rate is a bit below replacement but at least stable.) There are lots and lots of other factors involved of course - I don't think its reasonable to credit western feminism for the difference, but you definitely cant argue that equality is causing the problem.

The UK has its problems - but most women want children still - and most have them (80%). Most men want children - and most get to have them (75%). This is actually a much much higher percentage of men than those who would have fathered children in the distant past.

[namitynamechange]

And if we did force/pressure women back into the home for 5 years that would inevitably mean men who didn't have the required financial stability (its not just earning enough money, its also having a near guarantee of not being made redundant. Which is incredibly rare now) would have to accept that they would never get a family. Which would definitely lead to a much greater rise in resentment among young men and customers for these sorts of books.

Not to say there's anything wrong with being a SAHM. But I'm not the one who wrote the book on why women deserve less.

[hekissedmybottom]

Frequently bought with...

[Hostofgoldendaffodils]

Titles generally need to be provocative so that people will read the book. It's like the book "Jews don't count" - if you judge it by the title alone you'll think it's about the opposite of what it's actually about.

[monsteramunch]

@delusionalfeministlandwhale

I couldn't care less what some furious randos in the UK think

If you didn't care you wouldn't still be banging on like a toddler having a tantrum.

Off you pop mate 👋🏻

[MikeyButtons]

This book is allowed because of a thing called freedom of speech. Just because you may not agree with him doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed.

[emptythelitterbox]

@hekissedmybottom

Frequently bought with...

Don't think any of them need a book on how to be a massive dick.

[123ROLO]

@MikeyButtons

This book is allowed because of a thing called freedom of speech. Just because you may not agree with him doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed.

I get freedom of speech. I get holding controversial opinions. Maybe I should have rephrased my title to be "how much of a pathetic man child do you have to be to publish a book like this".

In a world where women are constantly degraded, discriminated, paid less, abused, raped, and encounter casual sexism every day. There is a book suggesting women deserve less than that...boarders on hate speech.

My only silver lining is seeing who the author aligns himself with, his hysterical nature and his deep unhappiness with himself, he will likely end up behind bars. That's usually where those emotions lead men.

[RealMen]

To every feminist believing person on this platform
Has anyone really read the book through and through
Cuz the hate your giving to this book further proves points of the book that women are so consumed by the misconception that what empowers men is misogynistic and dangerous to society while if women were told to hate me and KILL them, its empowering and not misandry

[RealMen]

@monsteramunch

@sabriellirael

I'm trying to think of a way to explain how people are reaching the conclusions they have about you, so here goes...

I'm white. If I posted on a thread about racism and a number of people of colour told me that my words were coming across as racist, the last thing I would do is tell them "they have difficulty hearing and accepting perspectives that they don't agree with (or would rather not know)."

That's what you're doing on here when it comes to misogyny.

It's a bit embarrassing to read to be honest.

As a colored man
The only way you come across as racist is if you say the n word
Thats it really
Not everyone is racist

[RealMen]

@123ROLO

Societal issues are a human issue, not a gender issue. I care for men and boys struggling with mental health, and feeling 'lost' in the world as much as I care for women going through the same.

I just can't feel sympathy for men that feel depressed and low because women wanting respect and equality has made life tougher and less fun for them.

The main message of feminism is to encourage women to lead fulfilling lives with freedom to pursue a lifestyle they want, and have autonomy to do with their body and mind as they please and to have a voice and presence in society that is equally respected as men.

The messages of the 'manosphere' is to disregard all of the above, and to consider a women's freedom a direct attack on masculinity, as part of being a man is being the dominant and in charge person.

Women are put at risk from these views.

The likes of Myron and his 'best selling book' are not helping the men who are suffering, they are just helping men who are bitter and hate women and want their feelings validated and normalised.

Isn't this the same as today's feminism??
The reason you can't feel sympathy for weak men is beacuse weak men aren't people you innately respect or feel pity for
The book just tells men to work out, stop simping, get good money, build confidence to interact with women, deal with rejection and more positive message
Why do you hate this unless your money directly is going to be affected cuz you have simps on you
Feminism work in our favor for it create men to not even care about their partner while you lie and cry yourself to sleep at the fact your not someone men would accept or love or even want to spend time on
Y'all became useless, bitter, old and desperate
Misery loves company. And you can't bring men down with you so you bring women to your level
Fool them to think what you said is right and destroy the youth innocence and virtue that you lost
Sickening

[RealMen]

@Eyerollcentral

Do you honestly believe teenage boys are angry ‘about being constantly told that they are potential rapists and abusers online and in the classroom.’? I sincerely doubt it’s crossed most of their minds. The Australian example you have given sounds very extreme, would love to see a link to any report of it if you can provide it. Otherwise I’m going to have to disregard it as a load of nonsense. Even if men are angry about being branded rapists, etc. why is their anger aimed at women? Surely it should be aimed at other men? Isn’t the fact that this isn’t the case yet another example of how deeply ingrained misogyny is?

Because women are the ones thats chanting it.
The world is equal. Period
No debate on this.
You get paid of what you know and you keep what you earn
There is women in damn near every industry you can think of.
Where is the inequality??
Why are women punishing male kids, male teens and adults for sins they didnt commit and clap, cheer, praise women for the fact y all say men aint shit, we dont need a men, men are stupid, rapist, predators when none of them even dealt with the company of men?
Please stop the cap

[monsteramunch]

@RealMen

Two women a week are murdered in the UK by current or former male intimate partners.

Come back to us and tell us things are equal when this statistic stops being true.

You should be furious with the men who commit these crimes, not the women who fear the crimes happening to them.

Grow up, do some reading and stop this victim complex where you feel hard done by because so many of your fellow men have given your sex a bad name.