Question about feminism

[WarriorN]

Julie Bindel said on a recent podcast or in an interview (can't remember where, sorry!) that she's not a radical feminist. She was quite clear on that.

I know she's about women's liberation though and i understand those povs.

Could someone explain what radical feminism is please? I suspect I lean somewhere around both but am not sure how.

I've tried to find online texts but obviously Wiki is tainted and I'm really not sure which sources to trust!

www.feministezine.com/feminist/

This is an interesting website. Radical feminism is about two thirds of the way down.

Haven't read the page but had a quick look. Looks like a great resource.

I think younger third wave feminists might consider me radical, however I don't. My feminism is women (aka adult human female) centred.

Thanks, will read later.

A few brief things I'd read and also previous threads (2013!) described what I understand as JB's ideas so I've been confused as to what line she draws.

JKR and Suzanne both claim rad feminism in the substack issue - and I'd describe what JK has done as a very rad fem move. Which is where JB started - so I'd love to know what distinctions there are.

Argh, the ONE link I want to read is broken!

Why do you say Wiki is tainted? It's usually a good place to start.

The wiki article on radical feminism is at least locked, with many references and notes as to the sections that are weaker than others. It does have a US centric approach which is clearly noted.

It's collectively edited so anyone can write what they want.

I didn't know it was locked but I do suspect it will be different to JB's perspective. She gave a good talk on Boyce's channel about the differences between us and U.K. feminism.

I mean, is Finn really a rad fem?!

It's collectively edited so anyone can write what they want.

Surely that would only bother people with somewhat 'unconventional' views. Like wanting to describe the BNP as a 'white liberation' organisation rather than a load of racist bastards (which is how the majority would describe them).

"No one has ever been able to tell me what a feminist is I only know that people call me one whenever I express opinions that differentiate me from a doormat"

Rebecca West

I'd rather just follow the areas that interest me. I find that once people start to identify as xyz they then feel compelled to act as an xyz.

It's like the people asking for 'the feminist response' to something somebody has said to them so they can reply. It always makes me roll my eyes. Why wouldn't you just respond with how you feel rather than asking others to tell you exactly what you should be feeling.

Wiki is most definitely not perfect, but for an intelligent reader with the ability to follow references and look at original sources with a critical eye, it's a useful tool.

I wasn't aiming that last post at you btw, OP. I just don't understand women who effectively say 'can you tell me the feminist stance on this so I can decide how to feel'.

My (I'm sure very imperfect) understanding of the meaning of radical feminisim, which may not be the same as current usage, is that it is radical = root.

Radical feminism believes that we need to strip everything back to the root causes of oppression and start again from there. It recognises that patriarchy is baked into our society (so much so that it's quite difficult to spot sometimes) and so we need to break down and rebuild rather than tinker around the edges.

I'm surprised that JB doesn't see herself as a radical feminist tbh, and would be interested to know why not.

I think you have to be a pretty strong and committed person to be a true radfem, because sometimes (often) it can feel easier to go with the flow and the patriarchy and not recognise that you're resting on the hard work of the women who came before you and the job is half done.

I wouldn't categorise myself as a radfem but I very much admire them and broadly agree with the concept.

There are different types of feminism so I can understand why she might not identify as a radical feminist, but does align with radical feminist ideas, as we’re all branched off the same source. I know plenty of lesbian feminists and Marxist feminists who rub elbows plenty with radical feminists.

Honestly though, as someone who does consider herself as a radfem, I think ultimately the push to label yourself as one type of feminist or another is pointless. What’s more important is action, organizing, speaking out about feminism, especially as people shut down their brains the minute they hear radical feminism/feminist anywhere in relation to what you’re doing or saying. That’s just me though. 😃

Feminism in wiki has been particularly known to receive a lot of editing and disagreement.

I remember tracking all the edits for 4th wave feminism a few years ago; vastly different opinions.

I agree coastal, I was just curious as to what her take on the difference was.

Radical feminism has been slurred a lot and to me womens Lib is a better term.

In other aspects I view myself as a radical feminist, if not fully in practise, in theory.

Even the man who invented Wikipedia says nobody should trust...Wikipedia.

It is well known to be updated by those with a bias, in the nicest possible way.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/wikipedia-founder-larry-sanger-democrats-b1885138.html

Yes, it evokes my first a level history essay; "what is truth?"

Ultimately any essay/ opinion piece is going to have some bias I feel, but there seems to be a consensus somewhere. I've just remembered Stock also says she's not a rad fem.

Tried googling JB on radical feminism and many articles (about her/ interviews) describe her as a radical feminist

Anyway, this is a really interesting review abstract by Jo Phoenix on her book:

academic.oup.com/bjc/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/bjc/azac048/6596200

I think ultimately the push to label yourself as one type of feminist or another is pointless.

I'm wondering if it's the label issues as you say- it's a political movement rather than a label. I dislike the label GC for similar reasons. But I'm behind the theories which are to me basic female centred feminism or radical feminism anyway.

Hello, the next books for the LFN Bookgroup are:
Tuesday 20 June 2023: The Suffragette: The History of the Women’s Militant Suffrage Movement by Sylvia Pankhurst

Tuesday 18 July 2023: America’s Women: 400 years of Dolls, Drudges, Helpmates and Heroines by Gail Collins
(not having read the book is no reason not to join in)
We are a radical feminist women only group who meet every third Tuesday of the month 7.00 p.m. Join us on facebook or through the the radical Feminist Social London MeetUp group. We meet via zoom. www.facebook.com/groun ps/1602858270013933/

Because its a shitshow filled with activists.

Just look at the talk and history on Kellie-Jay Keens page. It is everything but objective and it shows how awful and wikipedia has become. The misleading information and using "pink news" as "news". It's an activists play ground not an encyclopedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kellie-Jay_Keen-Minshull