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Feminism: chat

Feminism: sex and gender

Original poster

The word 'woman' removed from the NHS Menopause advice page on their website

31 replies

KitCatss · 03/10/2022 10:03

Just .. why? Why do we have to pander to (ahem) non-women (spoiler alert - men) in this way?

I honestly find it so infuriating. Women have periods. Women go through the menopause. Not 50% of people. ALL women.

What is so difficult about that?

OP posts:
MauisLeftNipple · 03/10/2022 10:33

It looks like it was changed in May.

Delightfully vague. I mean, WOMEN already struggle to find good information on menopause; I thought there was a drive to improve access but I am clearly wrong and foggy-headed.

Original poster
KitCatss · 03/10/2022 10:50

It's just ridiculous. Who exactly are we pandering to here?

OP posts:
JamSandle · 03/10/2022 10:51

I don't understand who the hell benefits from this?

ByTheGrace · 03/10/2022 10:54

To be fair I think it's to include transmen and non binary, who are biologically women. But it's still pandering. If they want to to that then it should be addressed to women, transmen and non binary.

MilkTwoSugarsThanks · 03/10/2022 10:55

I think in this instance they're trying to "pander" to transmen.

Unfortunately that will mean some transwomen will insist they have internal organs they don't have.

DappledOliveGroves · 03/10/2022 10:57

ByTheGrace · 03/10/2022 10:54

To be fair I think it's to include transmen and non binary, who are biologically women. But it's still pandering. If they want to to that then it should be addressed to women, transmen and non binary.

But as you rightly point out, those transmen and non-binary individuals ARE biological women so why do we have to change our language at all to accommodate those who refuse to acknowledge reality? They can 'feel' or identify as they like but that doesn't and shouldn't override material reality.

oct · 03/10/2022 10:59

WHY

Would love to have sat in on the meeting where this was discussed and agreed.

ImherewithBoudica · 03/10/2022 11:03

If it was about TM, then the phrasing would be 'women and'.

It is not.

It is pandering to biological males who find the mention of female biological reality intolerable to their own personal beliefs.

And frankly, they need to get over themselves. 50% of the human race are not going to naicely pretend they don't exist so less than 1% of the other half can have their personal reality undisturbed. It's sexism on crack.

Only females experience the menopause. Whether or not they choose to call themselves female has no bearing on this fact.

ByTheGrace · 03/10/2022 11:05

DappledOliveGroves · 03/10/2022 10:57

But as you rightly point out, those transmen and non-binary individuals ARE biological women so why do we have to change our language at all to accommodate those who refuse to acknowledge reality? They can 'feel' or identify as they like but that doesn't and shouldn't override material reality.

Show quote history

I guess I have far more sympathy for transmen and non binary as I'm fairly sure I'd be going down that route if I was a teenager today (which is why the medicalisation of teens terrifies me) and they are women after all. I can also understand identifying out of womanhood, it's a shit show going through puberty. But I have no such tolerance for men usurping women and a transwomen has no place on an NHS page for menopause.

TooBigForMyBoots · 03/10/2022 11:08

The Tory government have written gender woo into health policy, so it's no surprise the NHS replicate it in their statements.

ImherewithBoudica · 03/10/2022 11:10

Is there any political party that has not put gender woo into their health policy and everything else? If there's one that isn't captured I would dearly love to quit being politically homeless.

TooBigForMyBoots · 03/10/2022 11:12

All parties (apart from the DUP) have their "captured" @ImherewithBoudica. Only one party has the power to make policy and that's the Tory party.

ByTheGrace · 03/10/2022 11:13

ImherewithBoudica · 03/10/2022 11:10

Is there any political party that has not put gender woo into their health policy and everything else? If there's one that isn't captured I would dearly love to quit being politically homeless.

I thought the Socialist Workers Party used to be free of gender woo. Haven't looked recently though. I'm resigned to voting Labour, I just can't not vote and then know I'm keeping the current shower of shit in power.

SiobhanSharpe · 03/10/2022 11:23

I believe the original SDP from the 1980s (social democratic party before it merged with the liberals) is definitely gender critical and is just about hanging in there as a political entity.
I will vote for them if they field a candidate in my constituency. Big if, though

SiobhanSharpe · 03/10/2022 11:27

This sets put their policy on transgender issues and women's rights. I think it's fairly clear.
sdp.org.uk/policies/transgender-and-biological-sex-based-rights/

ByTheGrace · 03/10/2022 12:26

Scratch the SWP. But I've just been reading through the SDP's website, they seem quite sensible - now I'm cynically wondering where the catch is! Unless you're for Scottish independence, then they probably aren't the party for you.

ByTheGrace · 03/10/2022 12:32

Not meaning derail, but whilst reading up on the SDP, I noticed the interesting colour scheme on the "Make Votes Matter" campaign, hedging their bets there? 🤔

The word 'woman' removed from the NHS Menopause advice page on their website
waterwitch · 03/10/2022 12:40

Enjoying the derail - wonder if the SDP might be the most attractive option for lots of people!

Re the actual thread, notice the difference between NHS pages on menopause without women, but those on testicular cancer aimed firmly at men. This really is about not upsetting TRAs with our pesky biological realities!

SpidersAreShitheads · 04/10/2022 07:51

waterwitch · 03/10/2022 12:40

Enjoying the derail - wonder if the SDP might be the most attractive option for lots of people!

Re the actual thread, notice the difference between NHS pages on menopause without women, but those on testicular cancer aimed firmly at men. This really is about not upsetting TRAs with our pesky biological realities!

I think this is the thing which is the most frustrating - language designed for or to describe women is being altered to accommodate gender woo, but language designed for or to describe men is being left unchanged.

There was a great example in the Lancet - they published an article which steadfastly referred to women as "bodies with uteruses" or something like that. I remember the bodies part, can't remember if it was uterus or ovaries. I just remember everyone saying that it sounded as if they were describing a corpse!

Of course, not long afterwards an article was published about men, and there are no inhibitions about freely using the word "men". Not "bodies with a prostate" etc - just the traditional, biological word: men.

It's bad enough that language is being captured by gender woo, but what's really sickening is that the standards aren't being applied evenly. It's only women's language being eroded.

Neome · 07/10/2022 21:35

Is there something wrong with saying ‘women and others with the relevant female anatomy’? Genuine question.

femmm · 08/10/2022 05:58

Neome · 07/10/2022 21:35

Is there something wrong with saying ‘women and others with the relevant female anatomy’? Genuine question.

I genuinely cannot see the issue. The people that fall into the category of others may have an issue. They may not want to see themselves as an other and instead as a woman. But then, they're not really are they so it's a bluff.

Sestriere · 08/10/2022 06:01

I’d love to know what percentage of the adult population of menopausal age are trans men. I reckon it’s close to zero.

christmas2022 · 08/10/2022 06:03

Sestriere · 08/10/2022 06:01

I’d love to know what percentage of the adult population of menopausal age are trans men. I reckon it’s close to zero.

It's so odd isn't it? If only a biological woman, born with a vagina can go through the menopause why on earth can we not just say the word woman in the information booklets.

This is absurd and you just couldn't make it up.

BrambleyHedge · 08/10/2022 06:48

At least they haven't done this to the page on men's menopause: www.nhs.uk/conditions/male-menopause/

334bu · 08/10/2022 10:56

To be fair I think it's to include transmen and non binary, who are biologically women. But it's still pandering. If they want to to that then it should be addressed to women, transmen and non binary

Nope, nothing to do with including non gender conforming female people but everything to do with removing the word woman from anything to do with female biology,because it then excludes the male people who identify as women. All about the men.