Is this something men do? Putting women in a box

[helpmeunderstandthis]

Not sure if to post here or on the relationship forum. There seems to be a pattern in the men I had in my life.

First boyfriend told me women couldn't do my degree of choice (men dominated profession). I quit the boyfriend and did my degree of choice with a First.

After uni I decided to spend some time in Europe, boyfriend at the time was against it, he said we should move in together instead! I was only 21. I quit the boyfriend and moved to Europe and never regretted it.

My now husband has never encouraged my career choices, e.g. when I applied for my first "proper job" he said that I won't like it, many years later I am still at the same company in a senior role. I made some tweaks to my job after having kids, he said I wouldn't like those either (sometimes he was right, sometimes he wasn't). I don't like it NOW, but I used to love my job.

I am now pursuing a full blown career change. This doesn't affect our finances at this stage as I haven't left my day job. He said many times that I'm going about it the wrong way (he knows absolutely fuck all about the industry in question). I'm actually taking advice from professionals on how to do this. He is not against me pursuing this career, but he keeps reminding me of all the risks (I won't like it, I won't find clients, I'm not prioritising things right). Btw I'm not talking about a MLM type job, but a bog-standard profession that many MANY other people do!

I see a pattern here. I also feel deflated, like I'm failing already because my husband doesn't believe in me. And I'm sick of his mansplaining. Normally I tell people like that to fuck off, but he is my husband of 14 years and I'm not sure how to tackle this other than pushing back. Thanks if you read this far!

I think it's something people do. I think you've just had very bad luck with romantic partners. My dh has never discouraged me, only ever been supportive.

When he starts being Dr Doom how about saying, "Well I asked the person who knows me best in all the world and she's pretty sure I'll love it. She's confident I'll get the clients and she thinks I'll be really good at the job". And wait for the penny to drop.

I think you're putting too much importance onto what other people/the men in your life think of you TBH.

Do you ask your DH his opinion? Intentionally by asking or advice or unintentionally by venting a lot about work? Or does he just randomly speak his mind when it's not invited?

If you're asking for his input (like I said venting can also be considered to be involving him), there's nothing wrong with him giving his feedback. It's up to you how much weight you give that opinion.

could you not talk about the detail of how you're doing things?

some people are just always negative, always critical. My parents criticised the best career move I ever made. I think they had the decency to be embarrassed as they have never commented since. I didn't ask for their opinion, I just gave them good news and they shat on it. Their excuse was it was "unconventional" and they were panicking I'd fail. It wasn't unconventional at all but they were in a 50s work mindset!

It's often a limitation of their own experience. If they've never known someone manage something they might not be able to imagine anyone doing it - it's a reflection on their own limiting beliefs, not on you. Other times it's them trying to hold you down so you don't leave them behind. The trick is telling the difference! Does this seems to be a specific blind spot or a general lack of belief in you?

Have you tried talking to him
a) about how his negativity makes you feel and
b) about what his opinions really are, and why he holds them?

He might see you as being so confident and successful that you don’t need encouragement, but he’s worried you haven’t seen the risks? Or obviously he might be a negative influence - but you’ve been together 14 years, so I’m guessing you’ve seen something good in him?

It sounds like you’re comfortable with risk, which a lot of people aren’t and most men expect women to be more risk averse than them, especially when it comes to things that where the risk might be thought of as “adventurous”. So I suspect part of what you’re seeing when these men try and dissuade you is simply down to them not understanding why it feels odd to them that you are interested in doing something that they find a bit intimidating. Women are conditioned to expect men to be happier with risk and while they might not be happy about it, it’s less likely to occur to them to suggest it’s not something the guy actually wants to do.

In terms of handling your DH, have you tried sitting him down and saying nicely but explicitly that he’s putting up barriers to you doing this and asking if he knows why he can’t seem to be supportive?

Not sure if the opinions of three men over a nearly twenty year period??? can really be used as being indicative of something 'men do'.

Some dinosaur blokes feel a bit weird and threatened if their partner excels in their career, especially if you earn the same or more then them. Also agree with the poster above that most people are generally risk adverse where you seem a bit more proactive in making positive changes in your life rather then procrastinating. Also, not sure what your household finances are like but if this new role does not work out will it impact on your quality of life or shift extra financial burden onto him? Being pragmatic and analysing the pros and cons is normal. It does not sound like he actively trying to discourage you, just looking at all risks which is not a bad thing to do?? And are you being honest with yourself as to the likelihood of success with this new job??

Your second experience - a disagreement with a bf about lifestyle choices is hardly indicative of anything. Couples have differing opinions about things like this all the time and if it's important to either of them they split.
I wouldn't include that and don't think it says anything about men in general.

I’d try and get some marriage counselling, not because of a bad marriage but to get better understanding. We did and it helped enormously. It wasn’t that we didn’t love each other but areas we didn’t understand each other. A good counsellor can help enormously.

It’s a form of gas lighting. You’re picking narcissistic men I’m afraid.

You’ve chosen a succession of pathetic little men who feel undermined by your strength and independence.

You need to be very honest and clear with your H. That he has no relevant knowledge about your chosen field, that you have sought appropriate information from people who do know, and he needs to be supportive or shut the fuck up.

You will have to be straight with him.

I think some men think more about the choice and how it effects them. Or they don't want to have to do more at home.

I agree with the PP who opined that the middle guy did nothing wrong at 21. He wanted to settle down in the UK, and you didn’t. Neither option was “incorrect”, you just had different priorities.

You were unlucky with the first one, agreed! But no, not all men are like him. Perhaps he was young and daft and influenced by the anachronistic opinions of his father/grandfathers. Hopefully the woman he eventually married had a better experience with him.

A spouse of 14 years (male or female) is entitled to an opinion about something that could impact the household finances in future. I’d cut him a bit of slack tbh but I’d let him know that the mansplaining is deeply irritating and that uninformed opinions can actually be harmful and counterproductive (as the PP who did not take her parents’ advice said). I will say that in my experience, women are less likely to spout nonsense about things they know little of. Although sometimes I look at comments on legal/financial threads on here and wonder!

"In the nicest way, don't be a dick, Gerald. You wouldn't go on like this at a colleague or friend. Please grow up and deal with your dislike of any change like an adult - on your own."

I think you’ve been unlucky and/or made poor choices of boyfriend/spouse. I’ve been with my DH since we were teenagers, and he’s consistently encouraged my ambitions through four degrees, moving around the world both together and apart — including a period of international commuting for me — and a risky career change he supported financially while I wasn’t earning (I did the same for him many years ago when he moved fields). My close male friends have also always been the ones to say ‘Go for it!’

People neg others when they feel limited themselves.

It's something small minded people do. Admittedly, more likely to be men than women but they are like King Canute trying to order the tide back. We still have a hell of a long way to go but when I look at the advances I've seen in my 55 years on the planet I am confident we will only continue to go forward.

As to the old bollocks of jobs/industry women can't do, utter nonsense. I've worked in IT for almost 30 years and now specialise in OT (Operational Technology) cyber security. I've yet to see a task or piece of work in tech that requires a cock and balls. There are not as many women as there should be but those that I have/do work with are just as competent as their male counterparts. Actually, per capita or whatever the term is, I've worked with more impressive women than men. I'm currently technical lead on a project and the star on my team is a young woman in her mid twenties. She's got a degree in electrical engineering specialising in industrial automation systems and the speed and quality of her work is awe inspiring.

It sounds like you’re attracted to bossy/ dominating/ knowitall men. Plenty of men are not like this, but you’ve chosen men who are.

Is the pattern not poor choice of male partners?

My DH is like this. So is my mother. I have men friends and exes who were not like this at all, and also plenty of women friends. It has nothing to do with sex or gender and everything to do with personality/outlook. I am very careful who I talk to about what I am trying to achieve because who gives you their view shapes your outlook. Select carefully whose view you let in (and if someone is generally supportive but expresses concern/risk, listen to it and consider it but always remember it is only an opinion.)

Not necessarily because he is a bad man but just one who feels it is his duty to overprotect his wife. There are men like that with a mental black in that area and that’s why if you can get them to some form of counselling it can help them see it.

Hi OP, we just wanted to suggest that we move this to the relationships board where you might get more responses and help/advice. If so please use the report function and we'll be happy to move it for you.
MNHQ

I'm a man. I don't think men "put women in boxes" necessarily but most men are rubbish listeners and have an inbuilt need to "solve" rather than empathise with problems.

Your first boyfriend was just a so I won't dwell on that. Telling you not to do a degree because it's male dominated? I'm fairly confident you won't find many men who actually think like that in this day and age.

The second boyfriend just sounds like he wanted something different to you. You both made the right choices for yourselves and went your separate ways I guess? For what it's worth I wanted to travel and my STBXW didn't. I chose her and have lived to regret it!

Your husband, there's more info here but he sounds like he's trying to solve your problems rather than be a sounding board. It doesn't sound like he's always wrong, but he's not always right either. I mean, it is kind of interesting he said you were in the wrong career and you're asking about a career change now, he obviously knows you, cares about you and means well but he still does the annoying man thing of telling rather than listening. When you can speak to a good listener who responds with questions rather than answers, it can be a really good way to make better decisions for yourself, which is what I suspect you would like?

As to the career change itself, he's got a stake in it in so far as he'll have to make up for any initial shortfall in income or the impact on family life resulting from changing hours so it's not unreasonable for him to have an opinion. But nevertheless sounds like he's overstepping that boundary in thinking he can understand your industry better than you or your colleagues can.

I don't think a "why don't you shut up and listen" conversation is ever an easy one to have but most men would benefit from working on their listening skills.

Some men are definitely quick in saying to women "you can't..." I suppose they wouldn't say the same to another men. I don't understand why they don't see it makes them very unattractive.

On the other hand, it was a nice early indicator to ditch them or even more luckily stop considering dating them, so I can't really complain myself. But it is annoying.

In your case - what he does isn't a partnership approach. Partner should be able to help you sort your thoughts on something important for you. Should be able to express care, support and worries (reasonably).

Some posters are suggesting to not talk to him about details and not listening to much into what he says, but that would be very sad life in my pov. Try telling him, if he is ok otherwise maybe he will be able & willing to improve the conversation.