Surrogacy

[ffsonly46]

Wasn't sure where to put this but feel the posters on here will have plenty of views!

Watching the documentary last night by Tom Daly and I mention to DP that I was put off by his TWAW stance as this is all well and good but clearly they are not when you're not asking them to lend their womb for him and his DH to have children. I said I didn't like the commodification of women's bodies.

He pointed out that in this country no one is coerced or paid, I replied it's not so around the world and in general I was uncomfortable with the donation/selling of eggs and sperm.

We don't know anyone who has used a surrogate but do know people who have purchased and also donated sperm, he asked if I was against this also and I'm not sure, it is still commodifying children, all be it consensually.

Please can you share your thoughts on this?

These threads really really piss me off. There are lots of women like myself who have gone through huge amounts of trauma in our efforts to become parents.
At 31 I am going to have a complete hysterectomy due to cancer. It's not my fault. I want to be a mom. I can't carry my own child! I wish with every fibre of my being that I could. I don't want to adopt.

And yet people on here want to effectively call people like myself monsters for considering surrogacy. There is no evidence that is peer reviewed and reliable to suggest it's harmful for babies. No more harmful than a child spending their early weeks in hospital for example. All the data is based on adoption statistics. There simply isn't enough data on surrogacy.

How dare you call me a monster. How dare those of you who have the blessing of having had children criticise my decisions about becoming a parent. You should be ashamed of yourselves!!!!

I'm not going to call anyone a monster but I do disagree with surrogacy for ethical reasons. I think it's unfair on the child and unnatural. It's also undeniably risky for the surrogate. Women literally die and even if they don't there are many other health and psychological risks. It's illegal in many countries which I think speaks volumes.

@Dobbysgotthesocks I'm sad to hear you've had such a terrible time but I don't think anyone has implied you're a monster.
This is Feminist Chat and this is a Feminist subject.

Please don't assume also that all posters have children.

Whilst we’re at it i suppose we should oppose altruistic live organ and tissue donation, oh and blood, blood products, bone marrow etc.

of course feminism should be focused on telling other women what they can and can’t do with their own bodies, I mean a petition to prevent women from choosing to get pregnant/donate eggs is at the core of feminism, right 🤔

It might be in feminist chat but it's deeply deeply offensive to those of us who have no other options to have a family.

This!

Your all working on the basis that surrogates are being explored or coerced into being surrogates. Your making it sound as though they have no other alternative. And this may be true in some places but not everywhere and certainly not in altruistic surrogacy. Surrogacy is very heavily regulated in a lot of places and womens motives for becoming a surrogate assessed.Women have the right to decide what happens to their bodies and that includes deciding whether or not they want to be a surrogate.

As for the babies not being able to consent. Well correct me if I'm wrong but no baby has ever been able to consent to being born. Far better to be born into a loving family situation via surrogacy than into an abusive home!

Why not ? I think there are parallels - I think both are exploitative actually but I rarely hear anyone discussing the ethics of 18 year olds in combat roles

Why not ? I think there are parallels - I think both are exploitative actually but I rarely hear anyone discussing the ethics of 18 year olds in combat roles

@Dobbysgotthesocks @PinkyU you are of course entitled to your opinions and to vocalise them.
My point about feminist chat is I deliberately posted here seeking information as I have a view and wanted to discuss with other women who potentially share/oppose those views.

As pp had said, the protections around organ donation is not in place for surrogates in the UK.

Let's be honest.

It's buying a baby. It's renting a womb and buying a baby.

Having a baby is not a right, they're not fashion accessories.

When all the unwanted children in orphanages have been adopted then we can start talking about creating new ones to separate from their mothers.

If you genuinely think your desire for a baby, trump's a child's right to start it's life happy and secure you need to give your head a wobble.

What protections do you want? Or is your only focus preventing people like myself having families?

How is it renting a womb?
If my sister or friend chooses to carry my biological child for me.
The child would biologically be mine?

Why would the child be unhappy? There is NO EVIDENCE to suggest it will do harm to the baby. The evidence their is is based on adoption statistics where babies did not have a single primary carer in their first year. Not babies who would have one or two loving parents.

Whether women here (or elsewhere) have given birth or not I think we all understand that pregnancy carries a risk.

There are rare and extreme cases of women losing limbs or hands (easily googled) and these situations can not be avoided as they cannot be predicted.

Imagine having a baby for someone else and being left infertile as you had to have an emergency hysterectomy, or if you developed sepsis like this woman did.

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/venus-rising/id1481872967

With the greatest respect. You're not being "stopped" from having a family.

Many many children are in desperate need of a loving home.

You're being stopped from buying a designer baby.

Very different.

I don't have a focus on preventing women having children, I care about a complex issue.

I have no desire to argue or make assumptions about people's motivations, happy to debate.

I vaguely remember a story about a woman who had a baby for her sister in law being left paralysed. She was from Nigeria but gave birth in Belgium I think, in a hospital where the SIL had sued for medical negligence.

I’ll try to find the link.

We don't separate puppies and kittens from their mothers for 8 weeks because we recognise how damaging it is.

But sure, human babies are totally different.

OK can we calm down with some of the inflammatory please?
My OP sought views and information, not judgement of people's choices.

*inflammatory language

Designer baby!!!! How the hell is it a designer baby?!!!
It is my biological child. My eggs!!! I'm not manipulating characteristics of said child. This is my biological child who exists in a freezer already! From previous ivf treatment!

Why should my sister not be able to CHOOSE to carry my child to term because I have lost my womb????

I'm guessing you have never experienced fertility issues and never had cancer??!

Tbf this thread wasn't really about your specific circumstances.

We were trying to have a discussion around the ethics of surrogacy.

Myself and many others have concerns which is what we were discussing.

I'm happy to bow out now, as this obviously upsetting people and that's neither my intention or desire.

I’m guessing you have never experienced any of the very serious complications of pregnancy.

If this is how you discuss the issue I very much doubt your sister has much choice in whether she is a surrogate for you.

We are not coming over to the infertility boards to discuss our ethical concerns or call you names. But yes I have experienced the heartbreak of fertility issues I still dont believe it entitles me to coerce another woman to put her health and even her life at risk.

@BeenHereAWhileNow How dare you? How dare you suggest I don't understand the implications of a complicated pregnancy. How dare you suggest I have forced anyone into to doing anything!!!

I haven't coerced anyone into doing anything! I am entitled to be on any board I choose and to comment on issues that concern me!!! Your post is extremely offensive! I hope your proud of making me feel even more shit than I already did! Well done

If it’s done sensitively, it should be possible to have a discussion about the ethics and feminist analyses of surrogacy and fertility treatment though.

This thread isn’t on the main boards.

@Dobbysgotthesocks i am so sorry to hear of your struggles. You joined the thread exclaiming that posters were calling you a monster, how dare they call you a monster…etc., however, which suggests you haven’t read it properly or are too triggered by it to read it properly. Nobody suggested anybody was a monster, much less attacked you before you’d even shown up. Maybe this thread isn’t doing you much good?

The story OhHolyJesus mentioned above

fij.ng/article/a-belgian-hospital-cut-off-ajima-ogboles-cervix-then-they-paralysed-her-sister-in-law-susan/