Male colleague won't take no for an answer

[Yolojo]

Working away with two male colleagues I haven't met before. One of them, a much older gentleman and the team leader, keeps asking me to join him for dinner/on walks/for drinks and I keep saying no in a polite way but he asks again and again. FWIW I don't actually think it's sexually motivated, I think he just wants/demands/expects my company whilst we're away and can't fathom why I could have wants or needs of my own that don't include him or whatever role he wants me to play for him. For example, it was agreed earlier in the week that we'd meet up tonight all three of us on the final night, and whilst I'd rather not I accept it as a team exercise (though not being paid for these out of hours meet ups). He orders a wine with the other bloke, I get a diet coke as I rarely drink alcohol, which I've already explained when we met up twice already this week out of work at his (repeated) suggestion. I've also already had to stress that I've had an off stomach and a bad back this week (as well as the period from hell which I didn't tell him about). They order another drink and I'm asked again a few times if I'm going to have a wine, again I have to explain I don't really drink, over and over again, and deal with the disappointed looks when I don't cave in to his demands on what I do with my own body. Anyway, wondering if I'm being a miserable git as he's wanting to be sociable and I'm not, but I don't like colleagues making such demands on my free time and what I put in my body, quite possible he'd just be the same if he was a woman, I've certainly experienced women pushy like this too.

It can go either way with us on work trips. I usually socialise on the first night we get somewhere, then on the last night if I'm not insanely busy (or tired) but i am always very clear that i need my own space, that being with colleagues all the time is draining and not good for anyone.

I did famously tell a boss once that i had PMT and that anyone who got between me and what i wanted would get a fork in the face if they insisted on eating with me. That got round the whole company pretty quickly due to a blabbermouth junior manager with us. But it did get a dialogue opened up about not being on duty all the time - unless it's an important strategy meeting or client dinner or such like.

Those asking about expenses, we get 20Euro a day only so it doesn't go far. We don't know each other as colleagues, haven't met before, first time working together. New colleagues this week and currently working with a much older man who keeps asking me personal questions like if I have a partner and how old I am, also almost put his hand around my waist this morning to usher me out the door 😡don't want to be too outing with too many details about the job, but it's not paid well and different locations each week.

Yes, I accept the norm of group socialising first and last night, but frankly I'm not paid enough to be at work 24/7 with a bunch of random blokes wanting some female company.

Oh yeah, and this latest gem of a colleague also asked to borrow something of mine to use for our jobs today, but I also needed to use it (and y'know, was well-prepared enough to bring it), so his response was 'ok, I'll let you use it' - erm, you'll let me use my own equipment, thanks dude, so kind of you. I guess I'm just fed up of male company on these trips in general. Don't get me wrong, I'd say at least 50% do a good job, but the rest I can predict haven't packed this or that with them, are ill-prepared in some way and just expect the little woman to carry the admin/organisational type workload. Erm, no, we're doing the same job, I'm not your PA/personal companion/escort.

What an odd organisation you work for! These colleagues don't even know you but somehow knew a woman would be on the trip and more organised.

I'm thankful I've never worked in such a disorganised place.

Maybe you should start to look for something else. Eating together is expected (even when you don't know the colleagues) but a culture where people can't do their jobs isn't.

You're right about the company! Yes, they know I'm coming and don't necessarily think to themselves consciously that I'll be more organized and I'll pick up the slack, they're just a bit hapless and fall back on stereotypical ideas and roles, are probably used to women doing things for them in this way and so they never learn.

That's quite unusual. It's why I think you should start to look around for something else. I've travelled and worked with numerous male colleagues in similar circumstances and they've never expected me to be organised for them.
The most I've ever done is fold a mosquito net back up because it was beyond them --to be fair it was that colleague's first trip overseas-and after watching them struggle for ten minutes, I offered to help

I'd either shut him up by saying, "no, I can't, I've got the shuts at the moment" or "no, I can't, I'm on the blob and the size of the clots coming out are horrendous! It's totally wiping me out so I just need to rest."

That should embarrass him into never asking you again.

*shits

Seems either a dirty old man to me or a lonely one, or both. No should not be having to be said more than once.

This latest colleague calls me 'young lady' and seems to watch my every move so he can pass comment on it eg. Eating a sandwich 'that's right, get it down you!' Wish he'd fuck off.

Urgh! I don't have any advice because it is not your job to cure him of a lifetime of ingrained sexism and low-level misogyny. I think you just have to blank him (or maybe a brief, silent, pitying stare?) If he's the repetitive one, then possibly other colleagues may be doing the same. He might be subjecting the men to tedious 'banter' - if he does, maybe you can catch their eye in solidarity?

I'd love if you explained in detail the flooding, stabbing pain and diarrhea, just to see their faces. Absolutely he should not be pressuring you to drink. A polite person would ask what would you like to drink, full stop. No comments, no pressure. I'd leave after the first coke.

I can't stand people like this, but in my experience there's no getting through to them.

If he's the team leader is he looking for a work chat? Possible reason to get your opinion / potentially advice and promotion?

Boss men ask subordinate men to play golf etc. and it's often a networking thing.

I haven't RTFT, and do not ever think that men inherently deserve female company, and would always defend a woman for not spending time with a man she feels uncomfortable with / doesn't want to.

He is obviously motivated to want to spend time with you, and so unable to weigh up between him being an entitled wanker, and him identifying you as a valuable member of the team and wanting to help you gain more influence, rise through the ranks and make wherever you work better than it is now.

@Goforitnow @Snoozer11 @moofolk

The original thread is from MAY!!

It's all done 🙄🙄

RUN!

Get a different job if you can. Your boss is completely inappropriate and making you feel uncomfortable. I would bet anything he’s hoping to get you drunk so you loosen up - it’s why men buy women drinks at bars. I was gleefully naive for most of my life and it sounds like you may see the best in people as well, but having him even ask repeatedly for you to hang out outside of work is harassment and a clear indicator he is entitled, an out of touch ass who may be trying it on with you.

Having a drink with a boss outside of work hours is completely inappropriate unless it is in some sort of company event.

AND, you should never have to explain to anyone why you are saying no. Because this person has power and influence over you, he is quite clearly exploiting you to get what he wants out of the situation.

I would document the incidents and report him to HR. If you work for a company where that will make your job unbearable, then look for a new job right away. I don’t know how long you’ve worked for this man but his behavior is disgusting and completely inappropriate and in a post Weinstein/Epstein world if men did not know how to behave before they certainly should now.

The worst of it is I have been confronted with these types of issues my entire life and when pointing them out to men who are not that way, I often get met with disbelief by them. So, the bad ones are still bad and the good ones don’t believe the bad ones are that bad and I fear not much will change.

Same goes with some women not believing sexual-harassment exists because they have not been sexually harassed or are weirdly jealous because the person being harassed is more attractive than they are.

Please don’t let anyone gaslight you and trust your gut instinct. Any time you are having a feeling that you do not want to do something it is better to trust yourself and play it safe.

I hope you find an appropriate person to work for or you do not have to work for anyone in the future. If anyone says you are over reacting please know their opinions do not matter. You felt what you felt, it’s real and I wish I would have learned to trust my instincts sooner.

You deserve to live and work in a professional and safe environment.

Not drinking does seem to trigger some people. @MrsBlaue being a case in point. I have had grief in the past from female colleagues, not close friends, etc about it. Totally interrogated, scowling at me and telling me to drink. They seem really upset that I don’t drink.

not sure why when it doesn’t affect them. Maybe they feel judged about their drinking levels (I’m certainly not judging them). Maybe they think I’ll be no fun sober. But I have a weird reaction to alcohol and I’m totally incapacitated after a pint and not much good after half a pint to be honest. 🤷‍♀️ But I wouldn’t want to go out with anyone who has such a problem with me not drinking. Says a lot about them as a person.

After reading all the comments I Just wanted to clarify that I am in the US and work customs may be different here. When going to a work conference with a team of people in my industry there typically would be one night when the entire team would get together after the conference classes with the boss for a very nice dinner paid for by the firm. If someone was sick, there would not be an issue with them staying back and resting. Also, drinking More than a glass or two of wine would be inappropriate and unprofessional. If someone did not want to drink they just would not drink. It’s one thing to tease someone you know well and say, “come on have a beer”, but another thing to berate someone into drinking that you don’t even know.

Also, I thought sexism was as bad as it is here in the US in most developed nations, but recently I’ve picked up on a few comments here and there where maybe it isn’t.

Lastly, I think if you would have included all of the gross things that the older team leader was doing and saying to you in the first post people may have been more understanding - you did not do anything wrong - just pointing this out because you may not have fully realized the totality of what was happening to you while you were on that trip or even after and I have been gaslit over men acting inappropriately so many times it’s hard to keep a clear head.

Your increased anger during your responses to snarky posts leads me to believe that you were/are probably more upset about the situation than you may realize. I hope you talk to someone about it who will validate your feelings and help you come up with solutions for when this happens in the future - I hope it doesn’t, but it probably will.

It is common to go into fight or flight when we are put on the spot and fear that our jobs may be put in jeopardy. Having a bag of tricks ready and even taking time to respond is helpful in protecting ourselves as women.

Based on a really bad experience I had, I would also encourage you to read or talk with someone about being situationally aware when you are out by yourself, traveling alone/staying in a hotel room by yourself or you are around people you don’t know well. I don’t want to scare you, but bad things can happen so quickly it’s a good idea to know what to be on the lookout for and to trust your gut when it’s telling you that you may be in danger.

Take care of yourself. I really hope you don’t have to work around that perv again.

I think your main issue is that you need a new job that pays better and doesn't require you to fund travel expenses out of your own pocket.

Why on earth should you have to socialize with your coworkers every evening when you are away for a week? That sounds horrid! I can't stand people who need other people to entertain them all the time.