Unison voting on ditching the Nordic Model

[SapatSea]

Unison, the second biggest UK union, is due to vote at its national conference in June on a motion to abandon its 12-year policy of supporting the Nordic Model approach to the sex trade and to switch support to full decriminalisation – which would decriminalise pimps, brothel keepers, and sex buyers as well as those involved in prostitution.
Nordic Model now have produced a booklet laying out the issues at stake that you can download at:
nordicmodelnow.org/2022/04/05/decriminalisation-of-the-sex-trade-vs-the-nordic-model-what-you-need-to-know-booklet/

For a balanced debate here is an open letter for arguments opposing the Nordic Model and in favour of decriminalisation.

decrimnow.org.uk/open-letter-on-the-nordic-model/

Last month Belgium became the first European country to adopt decriminalisation for prostitution (as opposed to legalisation, the model countries such as Germany and The Netherlands have). Decriminalisation is also what New Zealand and parts of Australia have.

reason.com/2022/03/23/belgium-decriminalizes-prostitution/

How's that working out for NZ then?
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/30/new-zealand-sex-work-prostitution-migrants-julie-bindel

In Dec 2020 a sex worker "won a six-figure payout as part of a settlement after filing a sexual harassment complaint against a business owner. The settlement was an important reminder that all workers, regardless of the type of work they did, have the right to freedom from sexual harassment in the workplace", said Michael Timmins, director of the office of human rights proceedings.".

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/14/new-zealand-sex-worker-wins-six-figure-sexual-harassment-payout

I don't see this happening in Nordic Model Sweden. If a sex worker in Sweden made such a complaint the police would be more interested with charging her for running a brothel or trying to evict her, and Social Services would be more interested in taking her children off her (remember Petite Jasmine?).

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/30/new-zealand-sex-work-prostitution-migrants-julie-bindel

Julie Bindel also claimed "Pornhub has a new category 'Ukrainian girls and war rape" which turned out to be false. I'm not sure she's the most credible source for laws on sexwork are working out.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminism/4499808-TRIGGER-WARNING-Porn-hub-and-Ukraine

Genuine question - will the view of one union really make any practical difference?

I'm not a member, so don't really know if this politicking which makes noise but leads nowhere, or if there are real world differences?

Thanks for the link SepatSea
Anyone who supports legalisation of prostitution is supporting male supremacy and should be treated with at the very least suspicion or distain.

Under the Nordic Model, women working together in a brothel are protected but the men who use them are charged with illegal activity. Women aren't charged with anything under the Nordic Model.
(Oh! But the poor men! How terrible!)

Criminalisation of SW, or renting of properties used for SW, or prosecution of buyers, or shutting down websites used to advertise, etc etc only serves to make SWs afraid to get help or report assaults, harrassment or rape. Decriminalisation means that SW can do so without fear. They can act safely and enjoy rights and freedoms.

I know it’s not a choice many of us would make but there ARE many women who work in sex who do choose it freely and want to continue. Should there be strategies for the women to leave? Of course! But shrouding the work in shame and stigma does not motivate these women to do so.

Laws need to be robust around assault, harrassment, theft, stalking, trafficking and abuse. That is not incompatible with a decriminalised system.

Good link Margarita, thank you.
I’m not holding Julie Bindel up as a good example on anything.

@Linguini

Thanks for the link SepatSea Anyone who supports legalisation of prostitution is supporting male supremacy and should be treated with at the very least suspicion or distain.

I don't think many are advocating legalisation. There are however, a vast number of human rights orgs, health + STD orgs, anti-trafficking orgs and orgs made up of prostitutes who advocate for decriminalisation (this is different from legalisation).

See the list of signatures at the bottom of this for an example:

decrimnow.org.uk/open-letter-on-the-nordic-model/

@Linguini

Under the Nordic Model, women working together in a brothel are protected but the men who use them are charged with illegal activity. Women aren't charged with anything under the Nordic Model. (Oh! But the poor men! How terrible!)

"Women aren't charged with anything under the Nordic Model"

Yes they are. Women working together in a brothel are charged for running a brothel under the Nordic Model in Sweden and other countries who have it. See the letter in the link I just posted.

It's also illegal under the Nordic Model to rent to sex workers, this can result in sex workers being evicted. Social Services can also take children off of sex workers (see case of Petite Jasmine for an example).

It seems the Nordic Model has a lot of "small print" the people advocating for it don't seem to want to make public.

@CarpyDiem. Unison have 1.7 million members, 70% of whom are women. Unison help fund the Labour Party and they have a Labour link department with national and local reps who stay in touch with Labour group. Labour Link works directly within the Labour Party to take UNISON’s policies into the heart of the party. So, they have some clout there in helping inform what issues will be pushed in Parliament and getting working groups on issues going.

Women working together in a brothel are charged for running a brothel under the Nordic Model in Sweden and other countries who have it. See the letter in the link I just posted.

Running a brothel should be illegal.

You'll be charged for running one if you're, you know, running one. Not just working in one.

And yes I did read that letter with it's er.... Rather outlandish claims....

Quite frankly anyone who supports prostitution does so with their dick firmly in their hand.

Quite frankly anyone who supports prostitution does so with their dick firmly in their hand.

It’s not about supporting prostitution. It’s about ensuring the women who engage in it are SAFE. When you criminalise it and force it underground, women are not safe. That’s the long and short of it.

"You'll be charged for running one if you're, you know, running one. Not just working in one"

Working in a brothel counts as running a brothel under the Nordic Model.

Working in a brothel counts as running a brothel under the Nordic Model.

In your world of fake news maybe

www.swarmcollective.org/blog/the-swedish-model

"In [Nordic Model] Ireland it’s still illegal for two or more people selling sex to work together from an indoor premises - this basic safety measure is considered ‘brothel keeping"

This is also the case for Nordic Model Sweden, Norway etc

The idea of the Nordic Model is to discourage prostitution in all it's forms, penalise the punter rather than the worker, to give women better support and better options on society compared to sucking cock for a living.

I can't really have any respect for people who insist the NM is worse for women overall, or want to promote any form of legalisation of it. No model is perfect not even in the UK. In the USA it's worse, with many prostitutes behind bars with the men who use them going entirely scott free.

I do not agree with criminalising prostitutes. I do agree with penalising those who use them so the NM is a step on the right direction. It's a very modern invention so people will take a while to get used to it.

"I do not agree with criminalising prostitutes"

The best model for that is decriminalisation. That way sex workers won't be criminalised for working together, be evicted or have their children taken off them. They will be better able to vet/screen clients and condoms won't be used as evidence of a crime (as is the case with the Nordic Model, a reason why lots of health orgs don't support the Nordic Model).

Just like what happened in Leeds MP? With at least one prostituted woman dead and all women and girls harmed by the actions of males. Germany is clearly not safer for any women as a result of decriminalisation. Interesting when you are clearly not a believer generally in women having their own spaces.

The Leeds tolerated zone wasn't decriminalisation. Germany doesn't have decriminalisation (it has legalisation).

Regarding murders, more than 10 sex workers were murdered in Nordic Model France in a 6 month period.

www.pion-norge.no/aktuelt/more-than-10-sex-workers-have-been-killed-in-6-months

I think you might want to say up to 10 men murdered women. Truly awful. Which is why we need to stop demand , and recognise that being raped is not work that should be encouraged.

Which is why we need to stop demand , and recognise that being raped is not work that should be encouraged.

Every single country in the world has prostitution in some form. The NM does not discourage it or stop punters. The NM does stop women becoming SW. The best thing to do is to ensure that women who do engage in SW are safe and have rights, and the ability to seek justice without fear. That’s what decried does. It’s advocated for by human rights charities as well as sex workers themselves. It’s funny how people so passionate about these things so often do not want to listen to the actual sex workers.

Decrim not decried