TRIGGER WARNING - Porn hub and Ukraine

[zeldaonadreamcloud]

unherd.com/2022/03/how-ukrainian-women-will-suffer/

So Porn hub apparently has a new category ' Ukrainian girls and war rape'

I am beyond appalled. Who the fuck looks at what is happening in Ukraine and thinks ' that's a good wank opportunity.'

I try not to hate men, Lord knows I try, but things like this! Yeah, yeah NAMALT, but men created this, for men. NAM, but only men.

"Currently, this theme continues with recent videos, and mass searches for “refugee porn” or “war porn” for example, which have seen a spike in searches since the start of the war"

Some people searching for "war porn" doesn't necessarily mean said "war porn" whatever that's even meant to be, exists.

Julie Bindel's claim is "Pornhub has a new category ' Ukrainian girls and war rape". That's different from users making searches, it's a serious allegation against Pornhub.

@MargaritaPie

"Currently, this theme continues with recent videos, and mass searches for “refugee porn” or “war porn” for example, which have seen a spike in searches since the start of the war"

Some people searching for "war porn" doesn't necessarily mean said "war porn" whatever that's even meant to be, exists.

Julie Bindel's claim is "Pornhub has a new category ' Ukrainian girls and war rape". That's different from users making searches, it's a serious allegation against Pornhub.

Why did you cut off this bit?

There are also disturbing videos on the net, including a video titled “Russian soldiers rape Ukrainian bi-atch”, which has more than 45,000 views on a single site."

Anyway, I'm hoping Julie responds to people's questioning. It is indeed a serious accusation.

A lot of issues being mixed up with the OP here.

I'm afraid this absolutely has happened. The site has also featured videos of women who have been trafficked. And some women have not found it all easy to get the videos removed. I'm sure we discussed it at the time, but the search function is being weird for me.
If only "but that's illegal" stopped awful people from doing terrible things.

Indeed PH have had videos of CSE and trafficked women in the relatively recent past. They removed 90% of their content and now only allow uploads from verified 'models'. My impression is that all the big commercial sites are now the same. They did that precisely because it is illiegal and they ran the risk of being shut down- blaming the uploaders didn't cut it in the end (though it took far too long), mostly thanks to US prosecutors and courts.

There are also disturbing videos on the net, including a video titled “Russian soldiers rape Ukrainian bi-atch”, which has more than 45,000 views on a single site."

I don't know where that video is from but it's at least a year old. I can't find any evidence of Russian forces being videoed commiting rapes and, again, that would be big news.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that porn is not exploitative or that soldiers don't commit rapes. I just think we should be very careful about sticking to the facts to avoid giving ammunition to those of ill intent.

Sure, I agree. I wonder if it's a case of a game of telephone with this. We all know how easily information can be spread and misinterpreted /lost in translation on the internet.

I would like to believe that Julie Bindel hasn't deliberately lied, as I don't think she's the type to do so.

I'm going to call bullsh*t on Julie Bindel's claim I'm afraid.

To summarise:

-Videos uploaded to PH don't automatically appear. They are first checked by a (human) mod who approves/rejects them accordingly to whether they are legal and meet PH's terms and conditions.

-As mentioned above, for over a year now PH only permits members who have verified their identity to upload videos. They also removed all existing videos that were uploaded by non-verified users. If they are any illegal videos currently on PH then PH will instantly know the identity of the culprit to pass to police (without having to do any IP tracing or anything).

-I had a look at PH myself to have a look at the listed categories and didn't see any mention of "war" or "r*pe" or anything like that.

-Under the UK's 2009 extreme porn act, videos depicting r*pe are illegal.

-PH, as the most well-known porn site, are under massive scrutiny and they know it. I really don't think they would create a "war" or anything similar category given it would certainly be noticed and it would likely result in prison sentences for those involved and the site being shut down.

"There are also disturbing videos on the net, including a video titled “Russian soldiers rape Ukrainian bi-atch”, which has more than 45,000 views on a single site"

If you're aware of such videos you can report them to the Internet Watch Foundation as well as the police.

www.iwf.org.uk/

I'm going to call bullsht on Julie Bindel's claim I'm afraid.*

Yes, we all know that. You knew when you posted your first, faux shocked, comment but are just making a meal of JB's fuck up.

Given the number of falsehoods you post on here in stunned at your chutzpah.

It's not a mistaken 'fuck-up' by JB. She lies, twists and misrepresents.

It's not a mistaken 'fuck-up' by JB. She lies, twists and misrepresents.

I didn't say it was a mistake. It's clearly a lie she either repeated very foolishly or knew to be one. I have no evidence of any other lies from her.

Regardless I just think it's a bit pathetic how excited Margarita is to finally be arguing with the facts, rather than against them.

Fake news. This is why you should actually verify news stories for yourself, rather than simply believing something just because a professional-looking website says so. Get your information from primary sources, not secondary sources.

Rape porn is illegal in the UK as far as I'm aware, so I was sceptical that Pornhub would openly advertise rape porn as one of its categories. I went on to Pornhub, searched for "Ukrainian girls and war rape", and sure enough, I was hit with the following message:

Your search could be for illegal or abusive sexual material, including non-consensual intimate imagery (NCII) or image-based sexual abuse (IBSA).

Everyone in this thread is getting angry at Pornhub over something that can very easily be verified to be false.

I went on to Pornhub, searched for "Ukrainian girls and war rape

I was unwilling to make any searches so thanks for doing this to find out what would happen.

We can add to my list above that PH also has search restrictions in place for users that may be looking for illegal content.

I’m quite sure PH has a number of uploads that were not made with consent

I wouldn’t think PH is innocent of having these videos on line at the moment they certainly will be posted somewhere

Many enjoy seeing women being degraded they get off on it

I’m quite sure PH has a number of uploads that were not made with consent

The difference is, that when a pornographic video is made without consent, the abuse is generally concealed in the video and the staff at Pornhub are unaware of it.

The claim in the original post was that Pornhub openly advertised rape of Ukrainian women as a category, inviting users to watch.

The claim being discussed here is just a throwaway line in a much longer and wider-ranging piece.
unherd.com/2022/03/how-ukrainian-women-will-suffer/

The pornhub line has been picked up on by unherd, but it's not in any way the focus of the article - just a single (false) example in a large pattern of violence against Ukrainian women. It's a shame that this sloppy journalism has distracted from the main message.

This seems a reasonable guess as to how Bindel made this mistake.

barthsnotes.com/2022/03/10/a-note-on-the-unherd-war-rape-videos-claim/

This seems a reasonable guess as to how Bindel made this mistake.

I don't think it's a reasonable mistake at all. Took me 30 seconds to open Pornhub and see that there wasn't any category promoting rape of Ukrainian women.

[quote soffritoes]The claim being discussed here is just a throwaway line in a much longer and wider-ranging piece.
unherd.com/2022/03/how-ukrainian-women-will-suffer/

The pornhub line has been picked up on by unherd, but it's not in any way the focus of the article - just a single (false) example in a large pattern of violence against Ukrainian women. It's a shame that this sloppy journalism has distracted from the main message.

This seems a reasonable guess as to how Bindel made this mistake.

barthsnotes.com/2022/03/10/a-note-on-the-unherd-war-rape-videos-claim/[/quote]
The problem is that when the "throwaway line" is completely false, why would we believe the rest of the article? This is why jounalists need jounalistic integrity.

The paragraph reads:

Pornhub has a new category: “Ukrainian girls and war rape videos”; it is dominated by Russian soldiers documenting disgustingly brutal crimes. Domestic violence and street harassment have already spiked. Female refugees are falling victim to pimps and traffickers; official channels — the police, hospitals, legal systems — won’t help them.

The first sentence we now know is completely made up. So what of the rest? HAVE domestic violence and street harassment spiked? ARE female refugees falling victim to pimps and traffickers? ARE official channels failing to help them? Who knows?

Actually I think it would be surprising if, a few weeks in to a chaotic war that largely took the world by surprise, there was any kind of substantial evidence upon which to make such claims. Particularly about the "official channels" - what kind of special access are we supposed to believe Julie Bindel has to the police, hospitals and legal systems of all the countries Ukrainian women are escaping to, from which to gather such information? It would seem far more likely she's just making shit up again.

Actually the entire article seems dishonest. It purports to report on the effect of the invasion and war upon women in Ukraine, but most of it is actually about more longstanding historical factors affecting women in the country. It seems to be trying to recast these as an effect of the war when they clearly precede it.

It's also simply trying to minimize the lie by trying to categorize it as a "throwaway line" that can be distanced from the rest of the article and attributed to sloppiness rather than mala fides.

It's a massive accusation to level at a company regardless of the morality of their overall business and it's a huge red flag as to a journalists integrity that they'd level such an accusation without verifying it.

It looks as if Julie Bindel got her false idea from the Exodus Cry site. According to Wikipedia "Exodus Cry is a Christian non-profit advocacy organization seeking the abolition of the legal commercial sex industry, including pornography, strip clubs, and sex work, as well as illegal sex trafficking. It has been described by the New York Daily News, TheWrap, and others as anti-LGBT, with ties to the anti-abortion movement".

It may sound surprising that a Radical Feminist would be getting ideas from Evangelical Christians. However on the subjects of pornography and prostitution they have often cooperated. They share each other's false statistics. In a recent book by Julie Bindel and another one by Kat Banyard they quote 'Mr Wells' without revealing that this is Jim Wells the Northern Ireland DUP politician who is an Evangelical Christian. Bindel however unlike Banyard avoided using his false statistic that 127 sex workers have been murdered in the Netherlands since legalisation there. Jim Wells in one of the most patriarchal men ever.

You wonder how Rachel Moran could have used his false statistic on Woman's Hour. Talk about journalist's integrity. The BBC should check statistics before they are broadcast on national radio.

When Julie Bindel was on Woman's Hour she stated that she had found learning disabled women in Nevada brothels who had been double pimped. Jane Garvey was outraged. Yet that's not what she wrote in her report. In the report she wrote that she had met one learning disabled woman who she called Sindy. Who had not been double pimped. So it seems that she likes to distort the truth in support of her cause.

One more thing, according to the Exodus Cry article "war porn" is a "trending search".

One user above tried to search for "war porn" on PH as an experiment and received no results and just a message to say the search term wasn't permitted.

So how can "war porn" be a trending search on PH if war is a banned search word?

I think that people like Julie Bindel are used to the idea that they can say what they like about pornography and no one is going to check to see if it is true. No one in her target audience anyway, which seems to be suburban Daily Mail readers.

It's like this business with pubic hair. People said that no women in pornography have got pubic hair and this is influencing ordinary young women who feel that they have to remove their own.

Sara Pascoe the comedian has written about this in her book Sex Power Money.

The truth is that while there are plenty of hairless pussies, there is a rainforest of unshavens and anyone who is watching porn regularly has seen everything. Some interesting evidence against the influence of porn on young people is that all recent surveys have reported that up to 90 per cent of men prefer their partner to have pubic hair.

Update, I messaged Pornhub regarding this a couple months back and if anyone's interested here is their response I just received:
---
Hello,

Thank you for reaching out and expressing your concern about possible illegal content appearing on our website. We can confirm that we do not and have never had the listed category. We have a zero-tolerance policy toward non-consensual content, and we take many measures to prevent, identify and respond to illegal and abusive content. In addition to these measures, we have added deterrence messaging for terms or keywords that may be indicative of non-consensual content to serve as a reminder that such content is illegal and is not permitted on our platform. Please refer to our 2021 Transparency Report and our Trust and Safety Center for further information on these initiatives.

Lastly, you can refer to our blog for more information about how we have offered support to Ukranian models during this time.

Sincerely
Aris

These are the two links mentioned in the above reply which give more info on PH's policies on moderation etc. They are hosted on pornhub's website but there isn't any adult content on these specific pages.

help.pornhub.com/hc/en-us/articles/5357457259155-2021-Transparency-Report

help.pornhub.com/hc/en-us/categories/4419836212499-Our-Commitment-to-Trust-and-Safety

That's disgusting

What is?