More Met police "jokes"

[SapatSea]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10463671/Met-Police-forced-apologise-officers-joked-raping.html

Once again appalling behaviour from "our protectors." Recruitment vetting really needs an overhaul and the Met cleared out.

It said so much when that colleague of Couzens felt able to vouch for his character in court, knowing that wouldn't affect how he was viewed at work.

I work in an environment where people are a very average amount of decent, there isn't a saint among us, but if someone in my workplace spoke in defence of someone who could kidnap, rape, kill and set fire to another person, then I can't imagine them just slotting back in with us normal human beings again after that. They'd always be seen differently.

...there isn't a saint among us, but if someone in my workplace spoke in defence of someone who could kidnap, rape, kill and set fire to another person, then I can't imagine them just slotting back in with us normal human beings again after that. They'd always be seen differently.

The police service values loyalty to eachother above all else, including justice, protecting the public or upholding the law.

@felix125 you sound like such a decent person. Well done the internal email system you say works, for you. And the fact you dare to stand up for the 'customers', without any apparent fear of alienating and of losing your job.
You know, though, how internal systems and standing up to wrongdoing work for others in virtually any walk of life. It is rarely as ideal as your situation.
Elsethread, there is the recent #MeToo of women surgeons actually being groped in the operating theatre, and scared of losing their careers by objecting. You will remember the Bristol Hearts and dozens of other cases, where peers of lethal surgeons, or senior theatre staff, had, over the years, attempted in vain to stop the killing, only to be threatened by management and unions and in some cases being forced out of work, with no hope of ever practicing again, for being 'a snitch'

That's why I'm sure the whistleblower hotline must be external to the organisation.
But also why I'm sure the one and only way to make it overwhelmingly worthwhile to pick up that phone and get that 'crimestop' style of reference number is to change the law of complicity.
Treat all abuse of power as you would treat someone who knows or has reason to believe there is a plot to blow up parliament.

Our 'honourable' members of parliament would be eager to charge, as complicit, all those who failed to warn , despite having knowledge or belief. A system to enable warning anonymously but with proof of having done so is vital.

Hampshire recently had to fire most of a serious crime team after placing some bugs and finding casual discrimination of every kind. At least Hampshire acted immediately.

Another story of unlawful arrest and sexual humiliation of a woman. This time by Hertfordshire Police.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60158879

TooBig that poor woman, she was punished severely wasn't she, total humiliation; a woman who must remain modestly clothed as her religion required, she told them this and they ignored it.
I expect to be told that declining to give your name to the cops will automatically result in having all your clothing taken away - which is not an outrageous over reaction by the duty sergeant but completely normal and everyday. Strange that we don't see it much on police stop action type progs.

According to Officer Felix125, grounds for sexual humiliation strip search are
Women who the police know conceal stuff in their bodies;
And women who are unknown to the police.

butnobodytoldme
I agree - i'm sure our whistle-blowing system is internal - but i can see the advantage of making it external.

@TooBigForMyBoots

According to Officer Felix125, grounds for sexual humiliation strip search are Women who the police know conceal stuff in their bodies; And women who are unknown to the police.

I think your mixing two threads together here, but

The problem you have is how to illuminate risk to the subject and others in custody - the last thing anyone wants is a death in custody - either to the arrested person or anyone else - you have loads of people in the custody area including parents, solicitors, appropriate adults, nurses etc etc

So, if you were the custody sergeant and you were presented by a subject who was refusing their details - how would you class their risk? Low risk or unknown risk? And what would be your rational for classing them as such - and then what provision would you put in place to minimise the risk further once they are in a cell? Or would you be happy to put them in a cell and hope for the best? Or are you wanting the police to follow the rules as set out by PACE?

The vast vast majority of strip searches are done compliantly with the subject removing their own clothes in a set procedure. And such searches happen quite often with men & women due to the amount of items which are concealed.

If you watch any fly-on-the-wall police custody programme - have a look at the names which have been scratched on to the cell doors. Even if they have been re-painted you can still see the scratches. These have been done by subjects sneaking knives and similar items in the cell which they have used. I have known subject sneaking lighters in and setting the cell mattress on fire, drugs, phones - you name it. And they will use any bodily cavity they can to do it.

I think the Met is poisonous to the core and too toxic / dysfunctional / abusive for any amount of tinkering to fix it.

It should be disbanded and replaced with an institution that has been designed correctly throughout from day one.

Felix125

You failed to account for the wrongful arrest element. You also failed to account for the abusive language, threats and assaults by police when conducting unlawful "strip searches".

Or are you defending wrongful arrests followed by "strip searches" being used to try and break the person?

None of that is lawful or ethical, and that you would seek to defend it in such a disingenuous manner is telling.

@formalineadeline

I think the Met is poisonous to the core and too toxic / dysfunctional / abusive for any amount of tinkering to fix it.

It should be disbanded and replaced with an institution that has been designed correctly throughout from day one.

Exactly this. One of the officers involved in these sickening messages has since been promoted of all things!

A very senior officer once told me the Met was "parliaments police".

The same officer really got annoyed when I forgot they were trying to rebrand as a "service". Fuck that. If you go around in gangs with guns and I get fuck all say in whether I want to stop for you or not then you are a fucking force and don't fucking forget it.

Alternatively we didn't sent the Royal Air Service in against Putins jets yesterday did we. ?

@formalineadeline

Felix125

You failed to account for the wrongful arrest element. You also failed to account for the abusive language, threats and assaults by police when conducting unlawful "strip searches".

Or are you defending wrongful arrests followed by "strip searches" being used to try and break the person?

None of that is lawful or ethical, and that you would seek to defend it in such a disingenuous manner is telling.

No I'm not

If you go onto the other thread - its all explained there.

I don't want to re-post things on here as i feel as though its hijacking this thread, which is an important topic on its own.

Yet another "bad apple"
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10474005/Disgraced-Met-policeman-42-jailed-four-years-sexually-assaulting-seven-year-old-girl.html

Hints in the reporting of the usual escalation - calling sex chat lines (during work), porn (as well as stealing and fraud for which he was sacked from the Met). Only 4 year sentence- so out in less than 2, defence mitigation "so hard for a copper in prison" what about how hard it will be for the girl and her family to heal??

These are the sort of men who have been hired to "protect us" He was a former "neighbourhood officer" before he was fired so had a lot of access to people.

He was a former "neighbourhood officer" before he was fired so had a lot of access to people.

I don't think that was an accident either. His being a neighbourhood officer I mean. The firing more so.

If you want an idea about misogyny in the police force, simply take a look at this and other threads where a male police officer is monitoring and commenting on a feminism board to thought-correct women daring to discuss examples of police abuse in the news.

We can’t even talk about their wrongdoing without being policed.

@BornInAThunderstorm

If you want an idea about misogyny in the police force, simply take a look at this and other threads where a male police officer is monitoring and commenting on a feminism board to thought-correct women daring to discuss examples of police abuse in the news.

We can’t even talk about their wrongdoing without being policed.

And how am i thought correcting women precisely?

I am on a discussion forum to discuss things - i am putting points across which may not have been considered by other posters as they are not in the police. The 'thread starter' decided to put this topic in the 'Feminism Chat' forum - if it was in the ordinary 'Chat' forum would you would be happy with me posting?

I have been thanked by other posters for my contributions.

So, if I was a female police officer - you would be happy with the contributions i am making?

The problem you are always going to have with the police is that it recruits from members of the public. Of the public, I would say about 4-5% engage in criminal activities or are antisocial & have antisocial views etc. So, by definition the police organisation will mirror this percentage.

Vetting will be the issue - how its done, the effectiveness of it. Does vetting need to continue through their employment. And what type of things would you look for in the vetting process which would lead to dismissal?

It was suggested some time ago that all police officer just have a 5 year contract only. At the end of this they will need to re-apply for their jobs and the vetting process starts again.

The problem you are always going to have with the police is that it recruits from members of the public.

While true, that's not complete.

The whole truth is that police officers are recruited from a self-selecting subset of "the public". Which is invariably going to contain a non-zero number of people whose "thing" in life is to put a uniform on and bully the rest of us with the powers they are given.

And, as often is the case. The whole truth hurts.

@SerendipityJane

The problem you are always going to have with the police is that it recruits from members of the public.

While true, that's not complete.

The whole truth is that police officers are recruited from a self-selecting subset of "the public". Which is invariably going to contain a non-zero number of people whose "thing" in life is to put a uniform on and bully the rest of us with the powers they are given.

And, as often is the case. The whole truth hurts.

No

Applications for the police are open to the public.

At no point in the application process does it say that they will only recruit from people who's.... "thing" in life is to put a uniform on and bully the rest of us with the powers they are given.....

Unless of course you can show otherwise?

i was never bullied at at school and its not my "thing" in life is to put a uniform on and bully the rest of you.

My focus is on my victim's of crime, protecting the vulnerable and ensuring people who are a threat to society are behind bars.

@BornInAThunderstorm, I am grateful for officer Felix's contributions to these threads. For years Mnetters have posted about appalling behaviour and attitude in the police to be told it's just "few bad apples". No we have a real life "good cop" showing us how rotten the whole barrel is and why the police should not be investigating themselves.

Applications for the police are open to the public. [] At no point in the application process does it say that they will only recruit from people who's.... "thing" in life is to put a uniform on and bully the rest of us with the powers they are given.....

I really think you need to understand the concept of "self selecting".

Let's try another way.

People choose to be police officers. They aren't dragooned into it. No one makes them.

So the pool of recruits is already limited to people who want to be police officers.

And some of them will want to be police officers for all the wrong reasons. Who will not be easily spotted by the existing police officers who wanted to be police officers for all the wrong reasons.

So stop trying to blame "the public" for the fact that the police force as a whole is unable and possibly unwilling to weed out people who really, really, really, really should not be allowed in.

If this discussion wasn't taking place in the wake of any number of people murdered, raped, assaulted, harrasessed, or falsely accused by the police such distinctions would be less critical.

Sigh. Felix this isn't about you personally. That there is a culture of racism and misogyny in the police force does not mean that we think you are a racist misogynist.

The recent almost daily avalanche of revelations about disgusting behaviours by cops has alarmed and frightened a lot of women. It's not about you. HTH.

Sigh. Felix this isn't about you personally. That there is a culture of racism and misogyny in the police force does not mean that we think you are a racist misogynist.

It does however serve to illustrate a certain degree of policethink ....

@SerendipityJane

Sigh. Felix this isn't about you personally. That there is a culture of racism and misogyny in the police force does not mean that we think you are a racist misogynist.

It does however serve to illustrate a certain degree of policethink ....

Indeed it does.