Men dominating physical space at music events

[Bluebell1234]

I was at a music gig last night. My (female) friend and I got there early and has a good spot about 3 rows back. It was standing not seated. Every time one of the more well known songs came on it was evident that the men were dominated all the physical space. It seemed to be about 90% males near the front and they would think nothing of shoving in front of two average sized (5ft 4) women blocking our view and ‘dancing’ or jumping all over the place without any concern that they could hurt someone. At one point I put my arm out to stop someone backing into me yet again and his mate said ‘he’s harmless you know’. This was infuriating as he clearly could easily cause me harm by standing on me or shoving me (not deliberately, just by not taking care not to) It seemed the only women there apart from us had male ‘protectors’ so they were safer from their space being invaded. My friend and I were dancing and enjoying ourselves too but managed to do this without taking up anybody else’s space.

I felt like contacting the venue to ask them what they are doing to stop men dominating the space but it seems pretty pointless. I’m sure most of the men were totally oblivious and wouldn’t have seen themselves as doing anything wrong. I ended up feeling that we had been quite reckless by trying to be near the front and would stay near the back next time. Am I being precious or is there anything to be done?

I would complain, I doubt anything will be done but you might get a partial refund or something out of it, worth a try

Go out covered in head to toe spikes, like a hedgewitch . But seriously, that is the main reason I only go to seated gigs now.

@Ohsugarhoneyicetea

Go out covered in head to toe spikes, like a hedgewitch . But seriously, that is the main reason I only go to seated gigs now.

Actually that kind of thing works I have a tonne of spiked cuffs and a jacket with spikes on the shoulders, I can walk with impunity down oxford street with them, people pretend they dont notice you when they barge into you in the street, but clearly they do as I get no barging when suitably dressed for the area.

Quite liking the idea of going dressed as a hedgehog next time. 😂

Hate to say it, but times haven't changed. My girlfriend and I went to see our fave band in an open concert at a popular music venue in the early 90s - we were so focused on protecting ourselves from the men around us that we couldn't enjoy the music and were bruised by the end of it and ever since, I've only attended open concerts w/ my male 'protectors' and if I go w/ women only, I only choose concerts w/ assigned seating. Sucks.

This starts young. I think there’s a secret training school for it. I took my two little ones to a 6/7 year olds party. The boys took all of the space front and centre of the DJ being quite boisterous barging, jumping and pushing. The girls were pushed out, dancing around the periphery. It made me quite sad, I think the results of female/male socialisation is easy to spot even in such young children.

And manspreading on public transport keeps them in shape for this sort of space-hogging: important to stretch before you exercise.

Next time claim you need to be allowed to Zorb in the venue Because Performance Art? And/or religion. Or extreme & disabling Covid anxiety. Or you can claim to be me & thus CEV + Maybe The Jabs Won’t Work so the Zorb is letting you Live Your Best Life & is a Necessary Accommodation? (With so many people claiming to be CEV when they’re not & just whining on social media I’d actually consider it a good use of the lie, frankly…)

Can happen both ways - just to play devil's advocate

Discos and nightclubs often have large groups of women on the dance floors who seem to hog the space

And bands such as One Direction, Spice Girls etc etc - would have a large crowds of women/girls blocking paths and roadways desperately waiting to catch a glimpse of their favourite star leaving a hotel or something similar.

give over @Felix125. Not the same thing at all!

This takes me back to riot grrrl gigs I attended in the early 90s where flyers were handed out requesting that women be allowed to the front.

loudwomen.files.wordpress.com/2019/05/girls-to-the-front-notice-riot-grrrl.jpg

I massively prefer to stand at music gigs, and have had the same experience. Except I am a pushy little thing and just ram my elbows into men who lumber all over the place. Also, inevitably a 6'5" bloke with BO stands in front of me, so I just squeeze in front of him and he doesn't notice because I don't block his eyeline.

Hmmm…. If you’re right near the front though, that is mosh pit / jump around central isn’t it? I would expect to be jostled around etc down there by men and women. Though obviously men are bigger!

We saw frank carter and the rattle snakes at Glasto once and he had a section his set where he encouraged a women only circle pit and women only crowd surfing. It was fab!

I paid the same price for the ticket as the men but I couldn’t get the same experience. I managed not to knock into anyone else as I’m aware of not taking up other peoples personal space. And yet I’ve come away with bruises simply for wanting to see this band and have a good view. I do stand my ground to a certain extent but not to the point where it’s going to start an argument with a big drunk bloke. They should sell discounted tickets to women if we are not going to get an enjoyable safe experience that is on a par to the entitled male experience 🙄

I'm ashamed to say, this is so true, and I think of myself as a lifelong feminist and yet I'd just accepted this . Of course men will to push to the front, of course you can't see over them, and if you try to enter that space you're at risk of being injured - I've always just lumped it instead of questioning it. It's a similar feeling to when that happened at school. Just feeling pushed out and putting up with it :(

There really should be a fenced off space at the front for women to stand in front of men, as they'd be safer and the men could see over them.

I’m questioning a lot of things I just accepted when I was younger!

The underlying problem here is that the men generally are larger and so when it's ok to push to the front, it will tend to be the larger more assertive people. So not great for women, short people, the elderly, anyone less steady on their feet.

It's really just better to have seated concerts.Or a widely accepted cultural practice of letting small short people to the front of crowds, which exists in some societies but they tend to be places where they don't form lines while waiting for things.

Yes I always have to sharpen my elbows before a gig.

@Felix125

Can happen both ways - just to play devil's advocate

Discos and nightclubs often have large groups of women on the dance floors who seem to hog the space

And bands such as One Direction, Spice Girls etc etc - would have a large crowds of women/girls blocking paths and roadways desperately waiting to catch a glimpse of their favourite star leaving a hotel or something similar.

That isn't it happening 'both ways' - it's a completely different set of behaviours and the bands you refer to are for teenagers.

I've been going to gigs all my adult life and I think crowd crush is part of the experience. I hate the idea of safe spaces and mandated areas - that's not what it's about. And as for complaining to the venue in the hope of getting a refund - insane. As someone said upstream if you want to be upfront then sharpen your elbows. Most men in that space are just gormless and drunk - and especially nowadays - will quickly back off if you reclaim your space. If you don't want that then stand at the back with the cool kids!

@VaulterTech

Hmmm…. If you’re right near the front though, that is mosh pit / jump around central isn’t it? I would expect to be jostled around etc down there by men and women. Though obviously men are bigger!

We saw frank carter and the rattle snakes at Glasto once and he had a section his set where he encouraged a women only circle pit and women only crowd surfing. It was fab!

I agree with this, front of a gig = mosh pit. And most of the pits I’ve been in have been exceptionally polite, everyone gets picked up or steadied if they’re going over, no one gets trampled. But there’s lots of barging and slamming and bruises. If I don’t want to be in the pit but near the front I go for the sides but near the front. Still nicely crowded, but less barging.

The Frank Carter gig sounds AMAZING. He’s on my list to see live as I only saw him from a distance at a festival as I was queuing for donuts

I took my kids to a gig designed for young families - Andy Day's band Andy and the Odd Socks. The number of men who popped their toddler on their shoulders and then stood in front of 6/7/8/9 year olds was unbelievable. I confronted one bloke who completely blocked my children's view, he said "my daughter wants to watch", I said "so does every other kid here", "can you just stand to the side". He looked completely gob smacked that I'd even suggest that his precious poppet wasn't the only one that mattered. Most of the woman sat down with their kids, aware that there were small people behind them.

I went to a gig on my own and a guy was bouncing around banging into me. Think he was under the influence. Kept shoving him back but was getting fed up. Finally a bloke next to me told him to fuck off and shoved him hard out the way. While I appreciated it, shame it took a bloke to get rid of him.

Maybe it's cos they have a female singer but one of the best gigs I went to was Lacuna Coil. Lots of young female goths dancing and very little male moshing!

I was thinking of an analogy with children being smaller weaker people on average. Women would never throw themselves around recklessly when kids are about as we recognise we could easily hurt one of them. But men seem to think it’s fine to hurt women. We are obviously going to come off worse in general in this situation. I want to enjoy music and dance but not hurt anyone else and not be hurt. It seems staying well out of the way at the back is probably the sensible answer.

I’m also remembering going to gigs with certain (tall) exes who would drag me to the front. I’d be reluctant as I didn’t want to get squashed, drinks spilled etc. But they couldn’t see the problem. I’d be so embarrassed that they were acting in such a selfish way by blocking other’s views.

Girls to the front …

www.waterstones.com/book/girls-to-the-front/sara-marcus/9780061806360