Emma Watson accused of antisemitism…

[FortySeven]

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/04/emma-watson-pro-palestinian-post-sparks-antisemitism-row

For those who don’t want to click the Graun link: EW has been accused of antisemitism for expressing support for Palestine! After her sanctimonious tweets in response to JKR standing up for women’s rights, I wonder if it’s given her a little taste of her own medicine

@SportsMother

As you say you are from a very nationalist Irish background, how do you feel when someone with no connection to your country or its history tries to tell you that they know more about Irish history than you do? Do you welcome their contributions? Or are you inclined to wish that people with no skin in the game would take their fascinating opinions on the subject and hide them far, far away?

Would you like to see lengthy articles in multiple international publications about the views of say a random Israeli actress giving her views on Irish politics? Or would you rather that people with no lived experience of an extremely complicated situation avoided simplistic pieties that are unlikely to improve anything for anyone?

Just asking for a (very tired) friend.

I think it's a really complicated, intractable situation as is the case when you have two groups of people both with some valid claims to owning the same piece of land, and all of this heightened by religious conflict as well as territorial dispute (as indeed has been the case in N Ireland).

It's not simple, and some random celebrity from another country saying they 'stand with the Irish" or whatever would not have made the blindest bit of difference to the situation, surely you can see that?

As in N Ireland, labelling people on one side as goodies and on the other side as baddies is never helpful.

The vast majority of people on both sides are just people - they want to live safe, peaceful lives with their families. Leaders and some extremists meanwhile do very nicely out of conflict (did you know Yasser Arafat siphoned away about 3 billion dollars before he died, for example)?

Israelis facing existential threats aren't going to suddenly change their approach because some C list celeb says she supports their opponents. The more they feel their safety and rights are ignored, the further you get from peace, unfortunately. Peace will require everyone - including minor celebs - to recognise the humanity and rights of ALL parties.

But to return to the topic of the thread, no, that doesn't mean I think Emma Watson was antisemitic. But it does mean I think she would be best advised to be quiet on a topic about which she knows nothing and which doesn't affect her - much as I would say to men who like to mansplain women's rights to women, even though they are not affected and have zero lived experience of what they are talking about.

Telling Israelis facing existential threats to just 'be kind' is as inane as telling women to 'be kind'.
Telling Jews who survived a Holocaust that killed 2/3 of European Jews in under 6 years that when the Hamas founding treaty states it intends to murder all Jews globally they didn't really mean it and Israelis should overlook that to 'be kind' is patronising rubbish, luxury politics from people who do not have bomb shelters on every street corner and have never faced any danger in their lives. It's as ludicrous as men or multimillionaire libfems like Watson telling women that we have no reason to fear violent sexual crime from men - ignoring the fact that just because she personally can afford to buy safety, most women cannot.

I couldn't really care less what Emma Watson thinks about Palestine, any more than I care about what she thinks about shoes or about her favourite Prime Ministers or...anything really. I'd rather vacuous celebrities didn't share their boring opinions with everyone but more than that, I wish the media didn't behave as though them doing so was newsworthy.

I couldn't agree more. So tedious.

Thank you xxyzz.

@Duke4

Make a start with the IHRA definition of antisemitism. Then read a book - Deborah Lipstadt would be ideal. Also, talking to Jews about antisemitism is preferable to listening to vacuous celebrities.

Not everyone agrees wit the IHRA and it's been criticized by man people, including many Jewish people, because of it. These kinds of bodies don't have some kind of final authority on questions like this be they about antisemitism or racism or homophobia or anything else. Why would you think they would?

And there are Jewish people with all kinds of views about the policies of Israel, or even the idea of Israel as a political body at all, or Israel as a religious concept, and there have been since before modern Israel existed as a nation-state. So this idea people need to listen to Jewish people is not all that useful, unless in true identity politics style you mean the right Jewish people.

@SantaClawsServiette
Why would I think they would? Because the vast majority of Jews (think 90%) support the IHRA definition. Avoid tokenising a minority to fit your narrative, please, this is what antisemitism enablers do.

@GingerbreadVanMan

Not a fan of her in the slightest after what she did to JKR but I am so happy she’s spoken up for Palestine. Also I’m sick and tired of Israel pulling the antisemitism card every time someone dares to speak up against their atrocities.

Exactly my thoughts too. I 100000% think there should be a Jewish home land, and Israel should be it. I don't think Israel, with their US backing should be allowed what they have done to Palestinians

@xxyzz

What a tiring couple of days.

As a Jewish woman, I would so bloody love just a few days off where no-one mentioned anything to do with Jews, Israel or antisemitism. Dealing with attacks on women's rights is quite enough thank you - could people just stop mentioning Jews for a few days so we can get a break...?

Jon Stewart has now clarified he wasn't attacking JKR - but only after bringing up that old chestnut of the goblins in HP being antisemitic (which most of Jewish Twitter incl me do not think are antisemitic). And Emma Watson has spoken up on Palestinian rights - which again the vast majority of people on Jewish Twitter incl me thought was not antisemitic either.

I couldn't really care less what Emma Watson thinks about Palestine, any more than I care about what she thinks about shoes or about her favourite Prime Ministers or...anything really. I'd rather vacuous celebrities didn't share their boring opinions with everyone but more than that, I wish the media didn't behave as though them doing so was newsworthy.

All today achieved was to strengthen links in people's minds at a subliminal level between Jews and goblins (thanks Newsweek), add to the drip drip drip attacks on JKR, and gild Emma Watson's perfect virtue signalling lily a bit more for those who like that kind of thing.

What a crappy, exhausting day...

Just to note, the real antisemites in all this are the media, who love nothing more than a nice story about antisemitism to get the clicks - the Mail etc are very happy indeed to show headlines about angry Jews with pictures of ugly goblins and piles of gold, while the Guardian etc love nothing better than an article about mean Jews hating anyone who stands up for the Palestinians.

Aaaagh. Shut up. Just shut up all of you.

Meanwhile all the violent antisemites like the guys who attacked a bus full of Jewish kids in Oxford St a few weeks ago or the guy who threatened to murder a Jewish man in a shop in NW London about a week ago or the armies of antisemites on Twitter, Facebook etc remain at liberty, no action is taken at all. You don't hear anything about those stories and what action is - or rather isn't- bring taken there at all.

Write about that, Newsweek. Or the Guardian. As if you would...

xxyzz Right there with you

The angry face was supposed to be flowers, btw!

[quote Duke4]@SantaClawsServiette
Why would I think they would? Because the vast majority of Jews (think 90%) support the IHRA definition. Avoid tokenising a minority to fit your narrative, please, this is what antisemitism enablers do.[/quote]
I'm sorry, a minority of people still actually counts. There is no collective that gets to decide what is ok to think by others. It's not like those who think it's problematic are a bunch of crackpots, it includes all kinds of scholars in universities and legal experts.

It's a very identity politics based approach and anyone not immersed in that is likely to find it lacking.

This is no different in principle than telling people they are bigots if they have problems with the Stonewall definition of gender and if they aren't gender-queer themselves they should keep quiet and accept what they are told.

Are you Jewish, @SantaClawsServiette? Non-Jews don’t get to define antisemitism I’m afraid.

I really wish the entertainments industry would stop using their platforms for political ends. They are not the best educated group in society and tend to run on emotion rather than fact. People tend to endow the actor with the intelligence of the parts they play. Poor old Emma's opinionitus spell seems to have backfired.

Well said xxyyzz and others.

It bothers me that we might end up with TRA personalities and become as bad as them. I believe there are some GC commentators who are particularly vicious and those who seek a bolster to arguments where there is none, or cancel if they can. At least we can discuss on here and everyone's point of view seems to be valid, even if not agreed with.

Hands up everyone who is arguing about this and has actually been out there and seen some of what is happening.

And no, saying Israel is wrong is NOT the same as hating Jews.

Judging Israel by different standards from other countries/states is another and is anti-semitism

Sorry, but they are "the only democracy in the Middle East" and "the most moral army in the world" -- can't make shit up like that and then whinge about different standards