Male comedians and their ‘jokes’ **TW**

[Wavypurple]

I’m not a big fan of Jimmy Carr, I’m reading and DP put on his new special on Netflix to watch.

Not even thirty seconds in - rape joke.

Ten minutes later, he asks the audience if a woman has ever cried during sex to which several men proudly shout ‘yes’. JC goes on to say ‘you’re a rapist’ followed by eruptions of laughter from the audience. Seriously, as if it’s the funniest thing they’ve ever heard.

My point here (other than the fact that several men shouted proudly that a woman was crying during what they consider to be sex) is that prior to this JC mentions subjects such as being pro-vaccine and pro-BLM movement in a positive way, his jokes encourage you to laugh at his perceived stupidity of people who are anti these things. (To clarify, I also have my vaccines and support BLM and I’m not suggesting he should make negative jokes about either).

Of the joke topics JC and society in general decide are too edgy or offensive to laugh about (understandably - again to clarify racist/homophobic/anti-Semitic jokes are not funny and not jokes at all), rape is always on the list of things that are acceptable to throw in there.

My point of mentioning these other topics that are off limits is to demonstrate how sexual violence is equally as horrific and offensive as these, and yet still joked about.

I notice this with almost ALL male comedians, even the ‘woke’ ones.

Not sure what the point of this post was to be honest. It was just upsetting to watch and wondered if anyone else has noticed this in regards to male comedians.

@CheeseMmmm

For me there's a difference between mainstream TV and paying etc to go see. Have said more on this upthread.

The gallows humour thing is a nice idea. I think it's vv optimistic though.

Does Jimmy Carr joke in this way about people like him?
Reading just now, he apparently has panic attacks about when he got done for tax evasion. Initially he said didn't do it, then yes did when lie was too obvious. In thing I read he says still traumatised by that experience. Poor him tone.
Does he joke about tax evaders? Horrible things happening to them HOHO. My guess is no (could be wrong!).

Some laugh gallows humour. Some laugh because just find it funny.

The jokes I assume are directed at groups other than his? That says a lot imo.

I'm not a JC fan, I find some of his stuff funny, some definitely goes beyond MY line.

But yes he makes jokes about him being done for fraud too and on his tv show the guest frequently throw comments referencing it and he laughs alongside them.

As an aside, a lot of the comedians mentioned on this thread have stuff that I personally found questionable/not funny/unacceptable.

We put this on last night and turned it off for the same reasons. He also jokes about being in a porn movie - as a child.

Saw Stuart Lee a couple of years ago. He joked about rape, while the mainly male audience of wokesters laughed on because it was oh so ironic and oh so clever, being Lee and all, but really no different from Frankie Boyle or any other men joking about rape.

@kwiksavenofrillsusername

Having the right political talking points saves them from criticism. Can you imagine if a video leaked online of Jim Davidson in a working mens club telling those exact same jokes about rape? There would be widespread disgust. But if it’s Jimmy Carr in a London venue and prefaced with a bunch of correct political opinions nodded along with beforehand, it’s all fine apparently. Frankie Boyle is another one that is supposed to be on my side politically yet makes me ill.

However, I don’t think comedy, or speech in general should be censored. I dislike the new style of stand up comedy which isn’t jokes, but political rants, with an entire audience of people who agree with the comedian smirking along. As unfortunate as it is, men should be allowed to make their disgusting jokes. At least we know who they really are.

This is a fascinating post. It's made me think.

Yes the context of Jim Davidson telling these jokes, no one would laugh.

I went to see JC live quite a few years ago as I liked him on TV. I left at the interval as the entire set was based around rape jokes, paedophilia and misogyny. It was just awful. I've seen a lot of live comedy and that's genuinely the only one I walked out on. As soon as I saw his 'special' I knew exactly what the content would be.

The whole it's funny because it's shocking thing.

Well I mean. I could say shocking the easily. It's not difficult!

Would they be funny? Because shocking?

Would the women in the audience laughing. If having a drink with a work mate and a couple of his friends after work say.
One of them does crying sex joke.

Would she think hohoho?
Irl of course she may well say hohoho because well we all know why that happens esp if young.
But would she feel, really feel inside. Wow! That's really challenged my boundaries! This guy is really funny. And not be just.. a little bit taken aback, and just a little bit wary of the one who said it?

Maybe. Maybe not.

Another option-
Some find it funny because it IS vile, rapey, not a thing that a man should be joking about, and irl most would keep it for their male friends who they knew liked that sort of thing ..

The shock is that he CAN say it, he HAS said it to a large paying audience including lots of women, it WON'T damage his career or stop his BBC etc work, he WILL get away with it.

The shock is not the pushing boundaries, but that he can say all sorts of shit with impunity.

PigeonL

JL could and plenty would I'm sure-

He still tours and is v successful.

Oh btw Simon amstell is awesome if anyone hasn't seen and interested.

Seen him couple times and fuck me he's just brilliant.

Again horses for courses and that's the thing isn't it.

DH and me go, DH knows that there are points where he feels moderately uncomfortable, his choice!

Thing is there's so many things in this.

• Banning something if still people interested, pushes underground, and breeds huge resentment. In general in our society there's a big problem waiting to boil over around this (about all sorts of things).

• If ban comedy about this or that, how define it? To say. Ok, not ok?

• If ban certain subjects, that stops those joking about it from their own experience of it. As well as the JC types laughing at those who experience whatever it is.

• Stops others using that to highlight how shit it is to joke about. Which can be vv funny

Well I mean. I could say shocking the easily. It's not difficult!

Would they be funny? Because shocking?

No, there's a skill to it isn't there.
That's why they are comedians - they know how to manipulate an audience to laugh at something that perhaps the audience know they shouldn't be laughing at.
You see it on social media too - people post images with "I'll go to hell for laughing at this, but..." and it can be cruel, like someone in a wheelchair falling down some stairs or something.

My fave at the moment is Hannah Gadsby .I guess I might at some point find something questionable in her sets, but I think it's unlikely.

Someone mentioned joe lycett .

Someone else mentioned Katherine Ryan, I remember a TV show where she "joked" about sleeping with her boss to get out of work early and it all snowballed and oh wow how hilarious it was.

Russel Howard has had his questionable moments too.

If I were to give posters the benefit of the doubt I'd say obviously it's impossible to see/hear everything a comedian might do on SM, in their shows, on telly,radio etc.

Or maybe if you're a fan some things are easier to overlook, especially if their "persona" is a lot more socially acceptable/politically correct.

Is it a skill?

When Benny hill had millions howling with laughter,
When Jim Davidson sells out his tours,
When the woman in mash got caught in a 'practical joke' where they pulled all the sides down while she was in the shower for everyone to see (men to laugh),
When Sid James goes 'Corrr' loudly at a bent over nurse,
When a drag queen called 'cheryl hole' is on mainstream family viewing,
Etc etc.

Are you sure that it's because of the way they tell 'em?

Or more because, then, now, plenty of people simply think it's funny?

Horses for courses.

I have strong view that when it comes to national broadcasters esp BBC (taxpayer).

That hiring people who do stuff that is obviously going to go down really badly with a fair chunk of the public, and understandably. To do mainstream popular shows. Panellists, presenting lightweight family stuff etc.
That's not good at all.
There are loads of talented people out there who will do just as good, or a better job.
Give them the job, the exposure, the rubber stamp 'national TV channel says yep definitely funny'.

The ones who do the contraversial acts/ awful shit on Twitter/ etc. Can and will make oodles out of their tours etc.

I have no desire to stop JD etc doing the rounds at the seaside theatres etc.

But I don't appreciate having then popping into view when watching a mainstream, general audience, primetime prog.

Imo that's fair (I would say that!).

Bring back the 80's 'alternative' types!!!
Although... Plenty of people HATED that. Really loathed it. Looking back at why would be informative...

In the end I think when groups of people feel they are the butt of the joke... Well it's not pleasant is it. They don't like it. And if about something v awful or sensitive... Well obv not going to be hohoho.

This crying joke.

JC said any men in audience made a woman cry during sex.

Did he ask any women man made you cry during sex?
Guessing no. Why not?

Who was the group that were in it with the comedian iyswim. The men.

I really should watch but don't want to at all! Don't like commenting when not looked at actual thing.

Are you sure that it's because of the way they tell 'em?

Your examples bear no relation to anything that has been talked about so far.

I watched it earlier , I do often find him funny on the shows he's on the panels or , Can't remember word for word but his last sort of rape joke was it wouldn't be rape if you said yes

@deydododatdodontdeydo

Are you sure that it's because of the way they tell 'em?

Your examples bear no relation to anything that has been talked about so far.

In what way?

Lots of people find rape jokes simply funny. As they do and did all sorts of other things where the 'joke' was on women.

Is your view that this joke, if told by JC, is somehow made different to if same joke told by a comedian in the more... Traditional... Vein?

If that's your point, what's your reasoning behind it?

Is your view that this joke, if told by JC, is somehow made different to if same joke told by a comedian in the more... Traditional... Vein?

No, not at all.
I was responding to: "Well I mean. I could say shocking the easily. It's not difficult! Would they be funny? Because shocking?"

Not about JC's rape joke! Or something in MASH or a Carry On film.
You were asking if something is shocking is funny.
My answer was, well - no!
If I say something shocking it's not funny, why would it be? But comedians find a way to say something shocking and make it funny (to some, not all). It's not what they say, it's how they say it - thereing lies the skill.
I'm not justifying anything JC says, just answering your question which was is shocking funny by itself.

Ah gotcha.

The catch is, whether the audience is skilfully playing the audience to get them in a mood where they will laugh at things they otherwise wouldn't,

OR whether there's enough of the audience who enjoy that sort of stuff there, and that's why they're there, to mean he doesn't need to lead then into that frame of mind, because they arrived with it.

There's many reasons people like various comedians/ styles of comedy.

On this thread imo the benefit of the doubt is being extended to the general audience -across the board - too readily.

I thought he was making a very pointed dig at the men who have had a woman cry during sex, the implication being that they should be questioning why the woman was crying and stopping having sex at that point. I didn’t read it as laughing at women being raped.

You've seen the show?

That's why I should watch, don't like commenting when not seen actual thing.

Generally though he's made a lot of ville 'jokes' on the topic so thought safe to assume was being a nasty fucker as usual!

@CheeseMmmm

You've seen the show?

That's why I should watch, don't like commenting when not seen actual thing.

Generally though he's made a lot of ville 'jokes' on the topic so thought safe to assume was being a nasty fucker as usual!

Yes I've seen it. If I read the joke correctly then I thought it was actually quite clever. I don't like everything he does and I agree that he found it easier to make jokes about women than about BLM or other sensitive topics but on this one I thought he was making a strong point and that all the men who shouted to say they had had sex with a woman who was crying would have been judged badly by the audience. He did also make jokes about: the holocaust, cancer, dwarfism, paedophilia, BLM and other sensitive topics. Although I would agree with other posters that he wasn't as 'punchy' (sorry can't think of another word just now) about those topics as he was about women and rape. The show concept was around jokes that might get him cancelled at some point.

PPs said that when he asked the men and some were yes, the audience laughed, what was the after that bit that said they were all arseholes?

I really need to watch it! Can you tell me roughly how far in? So I don't have to watch too much as I've loathed him for years, even just from TV panels etc before I heard any of this sort of stuff.

There's something about him makes me just recoil. Similar to JRM actually thinking about it!

I've been switching over even things I like if he's on for years and years!

I don't feel that about many tbh. JC has something special about him obv!

@CheeseMmmm

PPs said that when he asked the men and some were yes, the audience laughed, what was the after that bit that said they were all arseholes?

I really need to watch it! Can you tell me roughly how far in? So I don't have to watch too much as I've loathed him for years, even just from TV panels etc before I heard any of this sort of stuff.

There's something about him makes me just recoil. Similar to JRM actually thinking about it!

I've been switching over even things I like if he's on for years and years!

I don't feel that about many tbh. JC has something special about him obv!

It's in the OP.

Ten minutes later, he asks the audience if a woman has ever cried during sex to which several men proudly shout ‘yes’. JC goes on to say ‘you’re a rapist’ followed by laughter from the audience

I suppose it can be seen in two ways. The audience laughing at the abusive twats that just ousted themselves and got called rapists.

Or the audience laughing at anything violence against women/rape because they're that way inclined and JC has a certain type of persona.

Or a mix of both.

Yes I agree it can be read more than one way and realistically I expect the laughter was for a mixture of reasons but my husband and I both read it as laughing at the abusive arseholes that just got called rapists. In fact we paused it and commented that that’s what they had done.

Idontwanna- thanks!

I'll take asquiz now.

Another thing I thought was strange is that I read he said going to be offensive at start. But apparently focussed in on rape jokes. And said, bizarrely, telling a rape joke doesn't mean you're a rapist (from memory).

That to me says-

He feels that rape is the one that gets the most wtf presumably as women half population it's just numbers.
He wants to get his 'defence' in first.

And the last bit. So weird.

Saying that to audience has two effects-

1. Gives audience 'permission' to laugh at start of performance.

1. Because joking, laughing about rape is fine, as long as you don't actually rape. So he has set the scene. I will joke about rape. You can laugh if tickled. Not a rapist, no reason not to. If no like, leave or grit your teeth, you were warned.

That justification is certainly an interesting argument to make!

Following logic then it means you can joke about anything at all as long as you weren't involved/ don't do it yourself.
He's given himself total leeway. And everyone else to joke about whatever as well if they want. If they get that's not on, he's given them argument to make back.

Also saying 'I'm not a rapist!' leaves me a bit cold, and his hilarious if it does then I'm a prolific rapist hahaha. Right ok Jimmy....

I don't know what the things are that are 100% off topic for something 18 on Netflix though! I can't actually think of any I haven't heard/ can't imagine being joked about!

Erm.
Fine to joke/laugh about-
Gay men, if not an active homophobe.
Mass graves in Burma, if not one of the soldiers who killed/buried.
Twin towers if not involved in the planning/ carrying out.
Um. I have Def heard jokes re gay men, twin towers though. Other is a bit current/ not so well known? Can't imagine avoiding though.

What really IS just nope here.
What about a joke where it's too far in the content?
Something involving extreme sex acts, animals, a morgue, the Yorkshire ripper and the Queen once she dead.

Yes that would work. (Feel bleurgh even writing that list). No comedian done whatever joke says. JC logic is therefore no problem.

Bizarre justification.