School make up policies

[rrhuth]

Hello, what is the verdict on school policies that do not allow make up at all?

I think they are not OK, because wearing make up is pretty standard appearance management for lots of people.

I had some friends who would have not wanted to go to school without their foundation etc. I do not wear it myself, so wanted to ask what the general feeling is about this. Something has come up at school (policy change). I do not have a make up wearer but was going to put my view in anyway.

Gagging!!! Faffing!

@Linguini

For the millionth time.... Girls with acne are not included in a makeup ban. Acne covering is a medical issue not a feminist issue.

Why then were you so intent on posting your ill- informed nonsense about make-up and acne?

Your comparison with acne and a wound just screams out loud that you have no idea about the causes and treatment of acne.

@Linguini

I don't see how anyone frequenting a feminism board can be objecting to a makeup free policy.

Men in society aren't expected to cover their face in expensive theatrical-effect products.

Those arguing "yeah but acne'-
Under makeup-free policy, acne covering would be allowed because that's a medical condition so leeway would be given to sufferers.

A no-makeup policy isn't aimed at acne sufferers. Or scar cover-up.

It's about pointless make-up.

The cosmetics market is built on luring women and girls into spending an unnecessary fortune on products designed solely to obscure their natural female face.

The cosmetics industry manufactures insecurity, and thrives because it convinces women that without makeup they "can't succeed" (in the workplace or in relationships) without covering up their natural face.

Men don't have this pressure.

I couldn't agree more. I was gobsmacked to read this OP on a feminism board.

11-16 year old girls should not feel that they have to wear make-up (and I'm not including concealer in this) at school.

As I said up thread, complaining about women being objectified and expected to look pretty and feminine at all times, and simultaneously complaining about schools preventing young girls from wearing make-up is incredibly confused thinking. And absolutely bizarre on a feminism board.

Dd1 is at a girls grammar. They allow natural looking make up to cover blemishes. That's the wording of the policy. I think that's fair enough.

I think a blanket ban on make up is cruel. Plus the kids will wear it anyway.

What really grinds my gears about this issue it's the bloody unfairness of it all. Some teenage girls never get a single spot. Some get hundreds and feel like utter shit about it. For some girls the make up ban wouldn't vaguely affect them. For others it's likely a mh issue at worst.

I was gobsmacked to read this OP on a feminism board

complaining about women being objectified and expected to look pretty and feminine at all times, and simultaneously complaining about schools preventing young girls from wearing make-up is incredibly confused thinking. And absolutely bizarre on a feminism board.

this is a problem, no one can discuss anything. This is why so many women don't identify with feminism at all, because if you ask anything or wonder about anything you get these kind of snotty remarks.

@EightWheelGirl: "it’s pretty clear that most of us want to wear makeup, look sexually attractive, and remove our body hair."

Possibly not in the feminist bit of MN; I wonder what the stats are for women generally? None of my female friends do any of those things. I wore make-up for a fortnight when I was 13 and never again - I'm now 56 - and don't remove any body hair. I don't aim to look attractive by any standards except my own.

What feminism is about is asking whether the desire to do those things is purely personal - which I think is what you're saying? - or whether it might be the influence of a patriarchal society which finds it useful to persuade women that their bodies should be decorative rather than functional.

I’m all for reducing the pressure on women to wear make up, prevent wrinkles, tweak this, plump that, have dyed and styled hair, remove body hair etc etc. I completely agree this is a massive extra burden on women and a problem to be addressed.

I do not think taking away all make up from insecure teenagers is the best way to approach this problem. Especially as I’m willing to bet plenty of their female teachers will be wearing makeup to work.

@minipie

Jesus SammyScrounge

Yes, I was worried about other people seeing my disfiguring skin disease. No, I did not paint my face like a clown, I used concealer only.

Do you really think the enforced face scrubbing you describe was a good thing? Back to the 1800s with you.

I don't think I mentioned concealer. I get endless amusement out of comparing then and now.. Women were doughty teachers in those days. As they saw it, girls were finally being given the opportunities that boys had. It wasn't that long since women were allowed to sit exams at Oxbridge but not to graduate.They were determined that we girls should take our studies seriously. We were not to be vain and silly, trivial, cheap looking- the list was endless. Scrubbing face good or bad? In the context of the time it had some justification, disobedience being a cardinal sin. This board has many complaints about disrupted classes, bad behaviour,teachers unable to run a functional class. I look back sometimes and wonder which was better: a strongly disciplined environment or the freer but rowdier. I switcher.

@EightWheelGirl

Without meaning to bash feminists, I do find that they often seem to have a rather overwhelming desire to speak on behalf of women in general or to try and push through rules, despite the vast majority of women not identifying as feminists nowadays.

The issue as I see it is the question of how do we decide which minority groups get to dictate the modus operandi? Would radical feminists be happy to go along with the policies set by libfems supporting the trans lobby? Would they be happy for other groups to dictate decisions about what they’re allowed to do with their own body as some seem to be happy to do in this thread?

I think the only sensible option is to go with the majority. They’re not usually the ones shouting the loudest on forums but life in general reflects what peoples desires are, and I think it’s pretty clear that most of us want to wear makeup, look sexually attractive, and remove our body hair. If you don’t want to do that then fine, but pipe down with the attempts to control other women and society.

I don't think it's about 'allowing minority groups to dictate' how anybody behaves, what some here are arguing for is to examine our choices. They are rarely completely free, and they always impact on others.

I don't want to 'control other women' but I can't deny (and I don't think i should have to) that others choices do impact on me, via their impact on society overall. If other women are happy to wear makeup, it makes it difficult for me to not as that's what society thinks is normal. An ex partner asking why I don't wear high heels. I said they uncomfortable and hurt my back. His reply? Other women manage, it can't be that bad!

I think examining and discussing our choices is really important. I don't get why I and other women should 'pipe down' about things that affect us. Especially on a feminist board! We need to understand what drives our choices and how they affect others in order to make informed choices. Please don't interpret this as 'telling other women what to do'.

I don't think it's about 'allowing minority groups to dictate' how anybody behaves, what some here are arguing for is to examine our choices. They are rarely completely free, and they always impact on others.

I don't want to 'control other women' but I can't deny (and I don't think i should have to) that others choices do impact on me, via their impact on society overall. If other women are happy to wear makeup, it makes it difficult for me to not as that's what society thinks is normal. An ex partner asking why I don't wear high heels. I said they uncomfortable and hurt my back. His reply? Other women manage, it can't be that bad!hmm

I think examining and discussing our choices is really important. I don't get why I and other women should 'pipe down' about things that affect us. Especially on a feminist board! We need to understand what drives our choices and how they affect others in order to make informed choices. Please don't interpret this as 'telling other women what to do'.

Some of the women on this thread who don't like makeup seem like they'd be happy to ban other women wearing it.

I think it's pathetic kids and teens wearing make up
Good policy.

@ScaredOfOverDiagnosis

I think it's pathetic kids and teens wearing make up Good policy.

I agree. Women of 18-19 should absolutely not be allowed to wear makeup, and when they go on a date they should have to wear a sackcloth. In fact, sod it, let's just abandon all personal grooming and go completely natural. All men looking like Tom Hanks in Castaway with big unkempt beards.

I went to an all-girls school and officially we weren't allowed makeup. I always wore concealer on my spots, blusher and a touch of mascara. But then I look like a ghost without blusher and have light brown eyelashes and people always ask if I'm ill if I don't have any makeup on. It just made me feel slightly more confident in a bitchy school environment, where some girls had flawless skin and looked like models. What's wrong with that?

I don't wear make up on a day to day basis, nor do my young adult DD's. We don't need it for "standard appearance management" nor do school kids

Some of the women on this thread who don't like makeup seem like they'd be happy to ban other women wearing it.

I'm think you missed the bit where we're talking about school children being banned from wearing it.

Does make up improve self-image, or exacerbate self-image problems?

Let's see... Females are more likely to wear make up. Are female more, or less likely to suffer from self-image problems? From what I've heard, rather more...
So... either make-up isn't a very good cure (compared, to say, basing your self-worth on what you can do, rather than your looks), or it might even be part of the problem (on par with photoshop filters)

From where I stand, banning make up in schools is a sensible move, comparable with banning cigarettes and alcohol. All legal for adults, but arguably toxic, no matter how cool or fun.

I think the confidence and comfort of girls is much more important than someone's ideological stance against make up.

This business about confidence - I have to ask, if that's just natural for teens, why is it 98% of the time a girl thing?

It is possible to feel confident without make up, and in my experience when girls find that wearing heavy make up is the only way to feel ok, it tends to do more harm than good.

Covering acne is a somewhat different story though even there, some students can develop quite a distorted idea of how bad their skin really is. It's still most often girls that will try and cover acne with heavy make up rather than boys and it's not always more effective.

It was no make up at my school, never bothered me, I don’t know anyone it bothered but we didn’t question school rules as much in my day. Plus I’ve never really been a big make up person.

I don’t see a problem with allowing some makeup, concealer or foundation though. I know one of my nieces wouldn’t have coped without it at school as she had really bad acne.

Girls are under so much image pressure more and more these days I think they need to be allowed something if they feel they need it.

Most schools have this mine did no nail polish or hair dye either the worlds not going to end if you don't have foundation on

Unless you have some disfigurement that you would be bullied over, like a port wine stain on your face, no kid needs make up and it shouldnt be encouraged, fine on a night out, but its not something you need every day and it shouldnt be drummed into kids heads that they need to smother themself in slap. nor should boys be normalized to think thats how girls should look.

My nose goes bright red in the cold. It's done that since I was a child. Th rest of my face is incredibly pale. In the summer it's OK, but in the winter it looks ridiculous. A small bit of foundation/powder sorts it out. If I'd been banned from wearing that, I think 1. I would've been bullied badly about my appearance and 2. I actually wouldn't have attended school.

Despite other things in my life going wrong, I got 8 A and 2 As in my GCSEs in 1997 (when this was quite rare and A had only recently been brought in).

Make-up doesn't affect someone's ability to learn and I don't think we should police people like that. It's about feeling OK with yourself. Would you be OK with having your head shaved? It's just hair. It just affects your appearance - what's the problem? I'd find that easier than not having access to my foundation/powder.

^ and that wouldn't come under a disfigurement at all, and I'm as feminist as they come.

I also feel strongly on PE kit - stupid to be off-putting to girls and making them wear gym knickers (essentially pants) or shorts. I think within reasonable limits you should be able to wear what you want, e.g. white T shirt, black jogger bottoms.

Make-up doesn't affect someone's ability to learn and I don't think we should police people like that. It's about feeling OK with yourself. Would you be OK with having your head shaved? It's just hair. It just affects your appearance - what's the problem? I'd find that easier than not having access to my foundation/powder.

I completely agree with this