School make up policies

[rrhuth]

Hello, what is the verdict on school policies that do not allow make up at all?

I think they are not OK, because wearing make up is pretty standard appearance management for lots of people.

I had some friends who would have not wanted to go to school without their foundation etc. I do not wear it myself, so wanted to ask what the general feeling is about this. Something has come up at school (policy change). I do not have a make up wearer but was going to put my view in anyway.

I'm not categorising you personally!

You probably don't identify as a third wave or anything type of feminist for all I know.

Just that your comments look to have been influenced by a very influential movement and it's important to be aware of where they might have come from. We've all been taken in by certain ideologies can't help it can we.

People are taking things rather personally here.

This sort of comment Just that your comments look to have been influenced by a very influential movement and it's important to be aware of where they might have come from is grating.

My dd's all girls school has a no make up rule. Also hair must be a natural colour, shoes low heeled, and jewellery minimal. They do turn a blind eye to concealer and natural looking hair and make up though, but most of the girls, including my dds, don't seem to bother. It doesn't dampen their creativity or discourage independent thought or or turn them into drones, its just make up. I am glad they don't have to faff around with it first thing, it's hard enough getting everyone out in the morning.

Without meaning to bash feminists, I do find that they often seem to have a rather overwhelming desire to speak on behalf of women in general or to try and push through rules, despite the vast majority of women not identifying as feminists nowadays.

The issue as I see it is the question of how do we decide which minority groups get to dictate the modus operandi? Would radical feminists be happy to go along with the policies set by libfems supporting the trans lobby? Would they be happy for other groups to dictate decisions about what they’re allowed to do with their own body as some seem to be happy to do in this thread?

I think the only sensible option is to go with the majority. They’re not usually the ones shouting the loudest on forums but life in general reflects what peoples desires are, and I think it’s pretty clear that most of us want to wear makeup, look sexually attractive, and remove our body hair. If you don’t want to do that then fine, but pipe down with the attempts to control other women and society.

I consider myself a feminist.

I am not in favour of makeup, my issue is even if the ideal is that no girls would want to wear it, given that we are where we are and they are currently e.g. 15 and dealing with the hideousness of secondary school, should we take away something they feel they need?

15yo are hardly kids. In under a year many of them will be sexually active. Seems odd to go from not being allowed to wear makeup to being able to get married within a year.

You really have no idea what you're talking about
I'm enthralled by the level of debate here

Oh there's no debate. I'm not going to waste my time with you. You clearly think you are extremely clever but you very clearly have no idea whatsoever about dealing with acne.

@zurala

No one needs to wear makeup. I think schools should ban it and enforce the ban. We need to get away from the idea that women's faces are unacceptable in their natural state.

My daughter suffered severe acne for ages 15 to 25 If she hasn't have been able to cover her spots pustules etc she would have found school near on impossible ...not all make up is used for vanity She wore enough to mask her face and a little mascara

For the millionth time....
Girls with acne are not included in a makeup ban.
Acne covering is a medical issue not a feminist issue.

Girls can cover acne in a makeup ban.

@Linguini

For the millionth time.... Girls with acne are not included in a makeup ban. Acne covering is a medical issue not a feminist issue.

Does it have to be 'acne' (medical diagnosis) or can it be 'I dislike my skin'?

I wonder if the head is banning make up on feminist grounds? (doubt it)

@rrhuth

I wonder if the head is banning make up on feminist grounds? (doubt it)

Most on here seem to be.

I have 2 dds at an all girls school.
Their policy is no make up at all in year 7 and 8.
years 9-11 it is minimal, so foundation and concealer allowed, but no other visible make up.

I am happy with that.
It allows girls who are self conscious with eg acne to cover up, but discourages the whole full face make up thing.

I really hate the whole idea of girls of eg 15 going in to school in full face make up. That is to me very sad

@rrhuth

I wonder if the head is banning make up on feminist grounds? (doubt it)

That's a good question.

What is the head's reasoning?

I agree with a no make up rule that doesn't punish anyone for wearing light, natural looking make up. Remove that rule and in my experience pupils turn up with inch thick foundation, contouring, Russian lashes etc and spend lots of time looking at themselves and reapplying. A happy medium compromise is best.

Wearing makeup is not a feminist choice. I think it's absolutely right to analyse and critique it and to think about why women wear it and what it means.

I also think it's completely wrong to ban it. Women and girls are allowed to make choices that aren't feminist. The third wave mistake was 'it's a feminist choice, because I chose it'. Most of is recognise that some of the things we do aren't feminist, but that's okay, because feminism doesn't demand purity. In some women's vision of a utopian world, maybe nobody would wear makeup. That's fine. In the world we live in, many do, and the way to begin to change that isn't by making girls feel bad about themselves by forbidding it. It's to change what we do, as adult women, to make it more acceptable and visible not to comply with beauty standards.

@Linguini I am not sure!

Does it have to be 'acne' (medical diagnosis) or can it be 'I dislike my skin'?

In an ideal world, there would be more diversity regarding acceptable skin tones.

I'm in the camp that objects to use of make-up simply because "I don't feel I fit the Instagram Photoshop perfect ideal skin tone".

Sorry but I'd basically encourage the acceptance of what's natural for a girl's face.

It's like bra burning but for makeup.

@GreenWhiteViolet

Wearing makeup is not a feminist choice. I think it's absolutely right to analyse and critique it and to think about why women wear it and what it means.

I also think it's completely wrong to ban it. Women and girls are allowed to make choices that aren't feminist. The third wave mistake was 'it's a feminist choice, because I chose it'. Most of is recognise that some of the things we do aren't feminist, but that's okay, because feminism doesn't demand purity. In some women's vision of a utopian world, maybe nobody would wear makeup. That's fine. In the world we live in, many do, and the way to begin to change that isn't by making girls feel bad about themselves by forbidding it. It's to change what we do, as adult women, to make it more acceptable and visible not to comply with beauty standards.

Oh now this makes sense to me, that is very helpful.

Our school is ‘natural’ only and our Head leads on this.
It includes all pupils and we do have two boys who wear it.
Most female staff wear only the barest of makeup (me included) and it is quite freeing, not feeling that we have to be done up (contrast to 30 years ago as a teacher).

It has removed the battleground that it had become, allows pupils with acne issues to make themselves feel comfortable and almost without exception pupils wear none or a small covering.

We also don’t make a fuss about nail colours.
We do have a ‘studs only’ earring policy and no rings though on safety grounds.

It was banned when l was at school. I felt so unattractive without it, l wouldn’t look a teacher in the face. I dreaded going to school. As a secondary teacher of 25 years l think no make up in schools is a load of bollocks,

Agree with the new policy. Children should not wear makeup. It’s so inappropriate. Childhood is such a short sweet time why burden them with the need to do their face and hair every morning? Acne is always aggravated by foundations or concealers, school should help to create a friendly environment to help children to deal with acne rather than encourage boys and girls to be ashamed and hide it under concealers. Social acceptance for acne!!
I think 16 year olds are sufficiently old enough to start to experiment with make up, such as eye liner, mascara and eye brow pencils and lipsticks. But still no false eye lashes, tattooed eye brow, lip job, artificial tanning etc.

Childhood is such a short sweet time why burden them with the need to do their face and hair every morning

Because it makes them feel better and more confident in the angst of adolescence?

And maybe they enjoy it? I used to love gagging with my hair and makeup.