School make up policies

[rrhuth]

Hello, what is the verdict on school policies that do not allow make up at all?

I think they are not OK, because wearing make up is pretty standard appearance management for lots of people.

I had some friends who would have not wanted to go to school without their foundation etc. I do not wear it myself, so wanted to ask what the general feeling is about this. Something has come up at school (policy change). I do not have a make up wearer but was going to put my view in anyway.

I don't really have an issue with a policy like this. I also think it's fine to have no policy, but I don't really think very heavy make up is appropriate at school, so if that is an issue \i understand banning it.

@minipie

Gosh. I had awful acne and relied on concealer, even with it I was dreadfully self conscious. I remember sitting in my GSCEs worrying about who could see my face. This was at a girls school not even a mixed school.

Honestly if make up had been banned I would have wanted to move schools. It was that important to me.

Perhaps there could be a concealer and foundation only rule? That’s more clear than “natural” which is subjective.

In the middle of your exams you worried about your face. Had the school banned make-up you would have moved schools. Bans on make-up were about destroying these attitudes. Schools had no time for foolish vanity (I quote) And if you were caught painting your face like a clown you were dragged to the toilets by the senior lady teacher. Out of a sort of carpet bag she carried, she produced a Brown bottle and a wad of cotton wool which she used to scrub your face, saying 'In this world, my dear, you are either use or ornament and you are no ornament.' The liquid stung and you were red eyed for the rest of a day. You did not offend again. I sometimes think that girls were better behaved in those days.

Jesus SammyScrounge

Yes, I was worried about other people seeing my disfiguring skin disease. No, I did not paint my face like a clown, I used concealer only.

Do you really think the enforced face scrubbing you describe was a good thing? Back to the 1800s with you.

Maybe banning makeup leads to some girls being less conscious of their appearance, but it would have the opposite effect on anyone who was at all insecure about how they looked. Someone in authority thinking that you shouldn't care about your acne doesn't mean that you won't.

And if the previous poster writing about the awful face-scrubbing was genuine, I hope she stands by her convictions and eschews foolish vanity to this day, wearing plain clothes, no makeup, and being a Really Useful Person. Otherwise I'll have to assume it's just nastiness towards teenage girls.

I was at a girls' school in the1950s. One morning, at assembly, the head announced that she and the staff had decided that we would be permitted to wear discreet make-up. Whether this was bowing to the inevitable or not I never knew, because most of us were wearing it. However , having been given permission, some girls' ideas of ''discreet' were far from it.

Schools should focus on preparing teens to go out into the world of work, and whether people like it or not, part of that is their appearance because in many fields you can't have all these assorted attachments, or wear loads of make up, or wear a cloud of perfume etc. But you can, in most workplaces, wear 'ordinary' make up if you like, so if schools are prepping for work, they should allow it.

I don't really think very heavy make up is appropriate at school, so if that is an issue \i understand banning it. If some are wearing heavy make up, they should tackle them not ban it for everyone IMO.

I don't really know why I care so much as I didn't wear it myself and my kids don't either, it just feels unnecessarily bossy.

@eddiemairswife

I was at a girls' school in the1950s. One morning, at assembly, the head announced that she and the staff had decided that we would be permitted to wear discreet make-up. Whether this was bowing to the inevitable or not I never knew, because most of us were wearing it. However , having been given permission, some girls' ideas of ''discreet' were far from it.

I suspect this is what ends up happening, pragmatically speaking. With a no make-up rule, the girls can get away with light, very natural make up, which is what is appropriate anyway. No one is checking every student with a magnifying class to make sure they haven't used concealer under their eyes or to cover acne.

Akire
Make up doesn’t cause spots no but covering then with thick layer make up so can’t breath isn’t going make them go faster either. Same any other blemish or rash

KimikosNightmare
You really are talking nonsense

🤣 Err no basic common sense.

Ooh I've got a wound...
I'm going to rub a load of paint into it. Sorted!

@Ionlydomassiveones

“My school had this policy. I wore light makeup anyway. I had shockingly low self esteem and someone telling me I wasn't allowed to wear it didn't make me feel any better about myself or my face. Quite the opposite.”

Me too. Crippling low self esteem and acne at secondary school. Make up was a life saver for me. Lucky you if you had great skin, good teeth and dark lashes but the ‘no make up’ celebrants don’t realise how crucial it is for the emotional well-being of some girls to have this is I’m their survival toolbox at secondary.

This is what I feel too - it is all well and good saying people shouldn't feel insecure, but they do - what is the benefit of making those who are unhappy feel worse?

I don't see how anyone frequenting a feminism board can be objecting to a makeup free policy.

Men in society aren't expected to cover their face in expensive theatrical-effect products.

Those arguing "yeah but acne'-
Under makeup-free policy, acne covering would be allowed because that's a medical condition so leeway would be given to sufferers.

A no-makeup policy isn't aimed at acne sufferers. Or scar cover-up.

It's about pointless make-up.

The cosmetics market is built on luring women and girls into spending an unnecessary fortune on products designed solely to obscure their natural female face.

The cosmetics industry manufactures insecurity, and thrives because it convinces women that without makeup they "can't succeed" (in the workplace or in relationships) without covering up their natural face.

Men don't have this pressure.

My school had a fairly strict no make up policy, but they’d turn a blind eye to a girl with heavy acne using a bit of concealer, which I think was the right balance.

This is what I feel too - it is all well and good saying people shouldn't feel insecure, but they do - what is the benefit of making those who are unhappy feel worse?

This is "I'm in a hole so I'll dig it a bit deeper" mentality.

Perhaps if women had more freedom to be themselves away from cosmetics-driven and appearance focussed expectations, fewer women would suffer such insecuries.

@Linguini

Akire Make up doesn’t cause spots no but covering then with thick layer make up so can’t breath isn’t going make them go faster either. Same any other blemish or rash

KimikosNightmare
You really are talking nonsense

🤣 Err no basic common sense.

Ooh I've got a wound...
I'm going to rub a load of paint into it. Sorted!

You really have no idea what you're talking about.

@Linguini

This is what I feel too - it is all well and good saying people shouldn't feel insecure, but they do - what is the benefit of making those who are unhappy feel worse?

This is "I'm in a hole so I'll dig it a bit deeper" mentality.

Perhaps if women had more freedom to be themselves away from cosmetics-driven and appearance focussed expectations, fewer women would suffer such insecuries.

But it isn't you having to make the change, and it isn't the person you are asking to make this change who will get the benefit.

Maybe some women might be choosing something you think is wrong, it isn't the choice I would make, but doesn't freedom of choice extend to making the 'wrong' choice? If you have no choice, you are not free.

Is it brand linked, like trainers? You have to have Mac etc. That I could understand banning and it'd be easier to just ban make up than to specify brands.

@Linguini

I don't see how anyone frequenting a feminism board can be objecting to a makeup free policy.

Men in society aren't expected to cover their face in expensive theatrical-effect products.

Those arguing "yeah but acne'-
Under makeup-free policy, acne covering would be allowed because that's a medical condition so leeway would be given to sufferers.

A no-makeup policy isn't aimed at acne sufferers. Or scar cover-up.

It's about pointless make-up.

The cosmetics market is built on luring women and girls into spending an unnecessary fortune on products designed solely to obscure their natural female face.

The cosmetics industry manufactures insecurity, and thrives because it convinces women that without makeup they "can't succeed" (in the workplace or in relationships) without covering up their natural face.

Men don't have this pressure.

What are your thoughts on men shaving?

I’d say turning up to work heavily unshaven would be seen as much worse than being a bit heavy handed with the make up.

KimikosNightmare
So we've had
You really are talking nonsense
And
You really have no idea what you're talking about
I'm enthralled by the level of debate here.

rrhuth
doesn't freedom of choice extend to making the 'wrong' choice? If you have no choice, you are not free

This is a trap that a lot of liberal third wave feminists fall into. Such as "choosing prostitution".

The liberal third wave was fundamentally a man's version of what ideal feminism would look like, full of "stripping is empowering" etc. (I'll add TWAW painfully as this thread is refreshingly not about that).

Unfortunately what women end up with is a stalemate of choosing between all the various options imposed upon them by a capitalist patriarchy, rather than being genuinely free completely.

What are your thoughts on men shaving?

Men's shaving isn't nearly as time consuming or expensive, but don't forget women are expected to shave too!
We shave our armpits, our legs, our bikini lines and more, and on top of that we have to cover our face in theatrical makeup.

@Linguini

What are your thoughts on men shaving?

Men's shaving isn't nearly as time consuming or expensive, but don't forget women are expected to shave too!
We shave our armpits, our legs, our bikini lines and more, and on top of that we have to cover our face in theatrical makeup.

Surely nobody is going to notice at work if you neglect to shave your bikini line or armpits?

I’d say average middle aged guy who shaves and wears a suit to work is relatively low maintenance. However, as I was discussing on another thread, once you start talking about the many guys who want to have what is considered an enviable male physique then you’re in a realm which often takes a lot more hard work to achieve than an attractive female physique.

Watch an action movie. The female character is usually just slim and attractive. The male character is usually slim and attractive with well defined biceps, triceps, pecs, abs, delts, etc. It takes an enormous amount of knowledge, effort, and time to attain a physique that is both muscular and lean as muscle can’t be built in a calorie deficit and fat can’t be lost in a calorie surplus. Which is why there is a steroid epidemic and one in ten gymgoing men are estimated to have body dysmorphia (which usually goes unnoticed due to the association of gym obsession with ‘health’).

some spotty teenagers using natural make up to make their faces feel more ‘normal’ alongside their naturally blessed mates is “choosing prostitution". Wow.

Yeah I thought someone would come along to deliberately twist my words.

A core principle of new/third wave/liberal feminism is that any choice is a feminist choice if it's made by a woman.
Next "Sex work is work".
Next "The multi trillion $$ cosmetics industry exists because women really want to be dependent on it in order to fit in..."

Those principles are worthy of discussion.

@Linguini

KimikosNightmare So we've had You really are talking nonsense And You really have no idea what you're talking about I'm enthralled by the level of debate here.

rrhuth
doesn't freedom of choice extend to making the 'wrong' choice? If you have no choice, you are not free

This is a trap that a lot of liberal third wave feminists fall into. Such as "choosing prostitution".

The liberal third wave was fundamentally a man's version of what ideal feminism would look like, full of "stripping is empowering" etc. (I'll add TWAW painfully as this thread is refreshingly not about that).

Unfortunately what women end up with is a stalemate of choosing between all the various options imposed upon them by a capitalist patriarchy, rather than being genuinely free completely.

I don't think I am liberal third wave and I don't think prostitution/stripping are harmless. It is important not to categorise people you don't know I think!