Murder probe launched after girl, 12, dies in Liverpool

[PronounssheRa]

I wasn't sure where to post this. A 12 year old girl has died after an altercation with a group of teen boys. 4 teen males arrested on suspicion of murder.

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/murder-probe-launched-after-girl-22281897

Not to make this poor girl’s murder about my DD but my 14 year old ASD daughter has been severely bullied by boys at school, girls haven’t really been an issue for her. I had to remove her from school. She had one of them try and take pictures of her in her swimming costume in PE and she was called a “fucking whale”. She constantly had lads calling her a “dirty slag” and this that and the other, and was sent explicit puctures clearly in the hope she’d send something back that could be used against her.

One of them is now suspended for stabbing his ex girlfriend (I say ex-girlfriend lightly, consdering they are 14) in the thigh with a pen compass for breaking up with him, the friends apparently found it hilarious. There’s been incidents of Year 11 boys getting explicit pictures from Year 7/Year 8 girls.

There’s something very wrong with these boys and I’m terrified of what they will grow up to be like.

I wouldn’t be raising a child in Liverpool if I could help it either. Male violence is of course everywhere and London is statistically worse (I’m not in London either) but I couldn’t live in Liverpool without thinking of Jamie Bulger, Rhys Jones and now this poor girl. All killed by other children. The victims of knife/gun in London do tend to be gang members (which doesn’t make it okay, but it’s a different situation), but there’s a theme emerging in Liverpool of innocent children being killed by other minors.

You mention three child murders over a period of 30 years which is not a ‘theme emerging’ that represents the amazing city of Liverpool.
Each of these horrific murders is a terrible tragedy but it is wrong to suggest that this is a reflection of the City.

I know it’s not logical but it’s made me personally dislike the city, I get sad when I’m there and I avoid going. I just find the place terribly sad.

I think it's entirely logical @ohmyfod. I can't think of another city where children have been murdered by other children

Poor Ava. I just can't quite get my head around it. They're all so young

I don’t think computer games cause it but they definitely exacerbate pre-existing violent tendencies imo.

I thought I’d have a go at GTA Online and within minutes (my character was a woman) was run over and then repeatedly shot in the head. The same player then continued to stalk me continually hunting me down within minutes and killing me - and the fact that DP said that never happens to him says it all really. Breeding ground for incels to act out their women hating I think!

Your unconscious bias against Black children needs some serious self examination.

There is zero difference between children killing children in Liverpool, and children killing children in London or New York or Mexico City or the fucking moon quite frankly.

@Clymene you need to read the papers. Damilola Taylor? Alesha MacPhail?

@RodiganReed.

It’s nothing to do with their race, I’d say it’s more of a ‘you’ problem that you immediately thought it was an attack on black children. That says more about your predjudices. Plenty of white children in London are involved in gang violence. And I specfically mentioned Rhys Jones who was killed by a white child gang member, so you really are reaching trying to make this about race.

Rhys Jones is a notable exception when it comes to children killed through gang violence because he wasn’t actually involved in the gangs. That doesn’t mean his death was any less of a tragedy, but it’s different. There’s a difference between gang-on-gang violence and the cases I mentioned. In which a toddler was murdered by 2 children, a boy was shot playing football as collateral damage in a gang war, and a girl was brutally stabbed to death by a boy over a ‘verbal altercation’.

Gang on gang child deaths aren’t really relevant here. Intervention from a young age and good role models can in most cases prevent a child from being taken in by a gang. We know why these murders happen and why children end up in gang situations. We understand that intervention is key in preventing and protecting these children. But the 3 Liverpool cases I mentioned are unique because they can’t be catergorised in any sort of way. There’s no notable method of preventing it, all 3 of the victims were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

My general point is that Liverpool sadly seems to have a sad history of this sort of thing. I admitted it wasn’t logical, I just said I wouldn’t choose to live there. Other cities have had similar tragedies but Rhys Jones and Jamie Bulger were huge tragedies that got a lot of media attention and that scarred the country. Gang violence whichever city it occurs in is much more common and the names of the children don’t become engraved on the public psyche like the cases I mentioned.

But you’ve gone and ran away with your own narrative and have twisted my words completely. And have decided that I don’t care about kids in London dying because they are black.

That's a very odd conclusion at the end. Children who kill have a history of abuse and neglect, often very severe. So there is something we could be doing to prevent this, there's no easy, cheap or quick fix. Properly funding our social services would be a good start.

Liverpool is actually a brilliant place to bring up children.

@TooManyPJs.

You are correct there but I wasn’t as such talking about how we can prevent children killing. Rather I was talking about from a parents perspective when it comes to protecting an individual child from harm it’s ‘easier’ to know how to prevent your child becoming involved in gang violence. But in the case of Rhys Jones and Jamie Bulger, they were supervised by adults and they were victims just by random chance. That’s why those cases gripped the country and horrored parents around the country. The nonsencialness and randomness of it all that a boy could be shot whilst playing football and a toddler could be murdered by 2 other children. Rightly or wrongly it’s easier for a parent to think “Well my kid won’t end up in a gang”, and so it’s easier to just think of those children as statistics.

My point in my original comment was that those cases because they were so high profile have always affected me and my view of Liverpool, and that this murder of Ava in Liverpool has added to it. Ava’s murder hasn’t been that hugely publicised but its an incident of male on female violence occurring in children so it has stuck with me.

I think people have read more into my comment than what I was actually trying to say. I wasn’t trying to make an analysis of society or demographics, I was just saying I personally wouldn’t want to live in Liverpool because of the high profile tragedies it has had have given the place a sad vibe for me.

I unapologetically stand by every word in my post ohmyfod.

As implied by use of the word 'unconscious' I don't think your words were deliberately or knowingly racist - but your comments and subsequent posts are dripping in racial bias. It's okay, we all have deeply engrained biases, sometimes even ones that can be at odds with our conscious belief system. Go away, do some reflection, do the work.

@RodiganReed.

No, because you are wrong. You’re the one that heard “gang” and instantly thought of black kids. Take a look at yourself love.

It's awful. Going to the Christmas lights switch on is a common thing for Y7+ to do on their own locally.

We need a #womenslivesmatter movement.

We really do.

Wouldn't raise a child in Liverpool? Oh behave.

No other city where children have killed children? You sure? Think long and hard.

Don’t come here then, you sound pretty ridiculous in your understanding of this City anyway.

I was raised in Liverpool and I’ve no intentions of raising my child anywhere else.

Jhorrific