Feminists unite... I need your opinions WWYD non school uniform related

[HopelesslyHopeful87]

This is going to be so outing but I don't care now. I need opinions as to whether I have a valid point here or if I'm in the wrong.

My DD is in y9. Today is non uniform day for CIN. When the non uniform day was announced the school sent home a long list of what the kids weren't allowed to wear. This list included things like leggings, ripped jeans, cropped tops, low cut tops, skirts, shorts. Very clearly this is aimed at the girls only and very clearly it's about objectifying their bodies. My DD told me that they are always told at school that they can't even show their ankles between their trousers and shoes to ensure the boys aren't distracted. This to me is absolutely ridiculous.

I'm of the opinion that a woman should be allowed to wear whatever she wants and it's more about being respected. This, to me, is skirting around the same lines as a rape victim being blamed that she was dressed provocatively. The list of

Now, obviously she is 13, and common sense tells me that I wouldn't want her going to school with her breasts showing or a skirt up to her bum but I don't see how ripped jeans or leggings is a problem.

I called the school out on this and the pastoral lead told me it was about "safety" not about their image. He claimed after a couple of years of rules and lockdown he wanted them to have a fun day with no rules yet sends out this list of rules. In one breath he said its not about sexualising the female students but in the next breath he says he doesn't feel comfortable with girls wearing leggings without an appropriate length top. When challenged on what an appropriate length top is he said it would have to cover their bums.

Today, to prove a point, my DD has gone in ripped jeans. She has been put in the segregated room for disruptive students and will stay their all day unless I take tights in to put under her jeans. Again, proves that it's about showing skin, not about safety, as the jeans will still be ripped even if she wears tights under them. She has refused and will stay in the isolation all day.

WWYD? Would you have the same opinion as me? I feel really strongly about this sexism but I'm doubting myself a bit and feel bad for DD being punished for this.

[NoSquirrels]

@RestingPandaFace

I agree with you but it’s almost impossible to construct an argument that can’t be disassembled on the basis that boys and girls don’t (generally) wear the same clothes and it’s the clothes that are the issue not the body in them. (See above)

Are there no boys with ripped jeans, have they been put in isolation and forced to wear leggings?

This is the crux, isn’t it?

Why are the girls wearing more revealing clothes anyway?

[JustFrustrated]

To clear up a few of my points.

We absolutely couldn't wear ripped jeans to work. And I say that, leaning on a pillar with biker boots and skinny jeans on. So it's just the rips - they just don't look smart.

I absolutely do think people should be able to wear what they want, I was just suggesting some possible arguments from the school.

I don't actually think either ripped jeans or crop tops are appropriate for school, or work, and don't think in this instance, it's a misogyny thing. I'm basing it purely on my lived experiences:

Rips in Jeans can, and in my case frequently, and do, get caught on things - table tops, cupboard handles etc.

Crop tops are cold. Being cold is not conducive to an educational/working situation

[Doomscrolling]

I agree with you and your DD, OP. A non-uniform day is supposed to be fun - wear what you like, not dress for an office!

Policing women’s clothing is definitely misogynistic. I don’t blame you for being pissed off.

[HopelesslyHopeful87]

This is definitely not a safety issue in terms of catching them on things. As she has been told she is fine to wear the jeans with the rips as long as she wears leggings or tights underneath to cover the skin.

[HopelesslyHopeful87]

I never said the ankles thing was in an email. I said that I have had a phone call not an email from school. The girls at school have been told verbally not to show their ankles. I never said anywhere that I have any written proof of any of this.

[Herja]

I'd re email, going over the phone conversation and highlighting every inconsistency (eg ripped jeans clearly not about safety, if ok with tights), pointing out every bit where they are indeed objectifying female students (like the leggings/long top. I am so fucking bored of hearing leggings described as tights. They are not. If your leggings are like tights, you're in the wrong size, or wearing footless tights rather than leggings). I'd also be pretty free in my description of the sexism and mysogyny involved.

Sexism pisses me off. Pathetic rules to disguise sexism also piss me off. People talking illogical shite to defend their sexist policy infuriates me. This ticks all 3 boxes, so I'd keep phoning, emailing and escalating until they could see and admit it. I conceed that this would make me angrier than many though, so could be viewed as an overreaction. I like people to admit when their policies are stupid, illogical and wrong though and would enjoy pointing it out.

[MistyFrequencies]

I'm with you OP. It's clearly about her showing her skin, since they've given her leggings, so that's very much sending a message and it's a misogynistic one policing girls bodies and clothing.
I'd not be happy.

[HopelesslyHopeful87]

@Herja I've got myself het up about it and worried I was over reacting hence asking for opinion.

It's interesting reading the opinions that you'd expect your 13yo to go on a fun non uniform day for children in need dressed in office wear 😂

[LolaSmiles]

If they're allowing boys to wear leggings, shorts, skirts, have their stomachs out, have most of their chests out but telling girls not to then I'd be all up for putting in a complaint. I'd also be furious if any teacher used the 'distracts the boys' line because it's misogynistic.

But it's not misogyny to expect all students to follow simple dress rules. Girls aren't being disadvantaged by not being able to wear crop tops for a day if all students are expected to have their stomachs covered.

[ClaudiaWankleman]

Rips in Jeans can, and in my case frequently, and do, get caught on things - table tops, cupboard handles etc.

So do pockets, bag straps, ties, hair etc. It's not a safety issue. If safety were the primary motivator we'd have got rid of all that asbestos in schools for a start.

[BellaBella1984]

If you haven't already take a look at "Beauty Redefined" they're on FB and IG and regularly post articles and excerpts from their book. They have some strong things to say re the policing of female bodies. Although from an American perspective, you might find some more usefull points to give weight to your argument.

[HopelesslyHopeful87]

Thank you @BellaBella1984 I'll have a look

[NeverDropYourMooncup]

The last time there was a non uniform day at one of my workplaces, a number of the girls had bought the usual ripped jeans and added extra rips - generally the new rips were all located so that the bottom of their arse cheeks were hanging out or right at the top of the thigh. A couple had taken the cropped t-shirts and cut a further inch off the bottom specifically to expose the lower part of their breasts as well - along with one who also widened the armholes to ensure that everybody saw pretty much everything (including that they were clearly extremely cold).

Why were they doing that? I really don't see how it's in any way feminist to conform to a perception of what the male gaze enjoys at the first opportunity. Or to give yourself frostbite in the pursuit of male approval.

[mehface]

I know this isn't aibu but you are bu, because ripped jeans are cold and no way suitable for life let alone school. She should of been smart casual that's all they needed to say.

[LolaSmiles]

Why were they doing that? I really don't see how it's in any way feminist to conform to a perception of what the male gaze enjoys at the first opportunity. Or to give yourself frostbite in the pursuit of male approval.
Me neither and I don't think there's anything particularly feminist in arguing that schools are awful for not wanting their pupils to have their chests and stomachs out, regardless of sex.

Still that's liberal feminism these days isn't it, everything is empowering and it's anti-feminist to not be on board with everything goes attitudes. It's just convenient that what is apparently empowering happens nicely overlap with male gaze attitudes to women.

[Phyllobates]

Very misogynistic. My colleague's school did the same thing a few years back, during summer. The boys were parading around wearing tank tops while the girls were dressed for winter in Russia. Needless to say, the list of what girls should not wear was comprehensive.

[Feelingoktoday]

Unless the boys are wearing torn jeans, leggings, crop tops etc then I don’t see how it is sexist to tell girls not too wear them. Leggings and crop tops are not appropriate for school.

[TheDrsDocMartens]

If they were aiming for office casual where is the bit about joggers/hoodies not being allowed?

[HopelesslyHopeful87]

Thanks for everyone's responses and opinions. Although it's clearly a divided topic and we don't all agree it's been interesting reading everyone's viewpoints. I'm still undecided on whether I'm overreacting or not and I'm in agreement with the poster that said it's hard to quantify an argument without proof that the boys have been treated differently.

[HopelesslyHopeful87]

In conclusion, I have emailed and made a complaint. After driving past the pupils leaving school this afternoon, it was apparent that there were boys wearing ripped jeans. There was also a girl wearing a pleated mini skirt and fishnet tights. Most other kids were in tracksuits. Clearly the expectation was not formal casual office style like most of you think. My DD says the boy was not made to wear leggings under his jeans. He was allowed to wear them all day with no consequences. Thank you all for your input.

[SenecaFallsRedux]

@ClawedButler

I'm with you, OP, and I am applauding your daughter's stand from across the internets

I would like them to clarify exactly what is meant by "safety". If they mean "things that could trip you up, catch on doors, catch fire or inhibit movement in an emergency" (so, like, stiletto heels and masses of hairspray) then that's quite reasonable.

If it means "put thy tempting skin and shape away, thou harlot" I would have a MASSIVE issue with this. What the hell is wrong with a pair of leggings and a crop top as long as it's warm, comfy and practical? Why is it "unsafe"? Do they mean it makes them vulnerable to sexual harrassment? Because if that IS what they mean by "safety", that is a problem. It's sending all the wrong messages to girls AND boys about body autonomy, respect and consent.

Teens shouldn't be expected to wear "office casual" btw. I'd expect teens to be wearing the latest trends.

Well said.

And well done, OP and OP's daughter, for taking a stand.

[LolaSmiles]

If boys were allowed to wear ripped jeans but girls were pulled up for it then I'd be 100% making a complaint as well.

[itsgettingwierd]

I'd have to ask why it's "safety" too.

Why is fashion clothing dangerous in school? I suspect it's also all about their idea of dressing correctly. Which is just someone's personal idea of what constitutes correct dress.

[PlasticPlantsDontDie]

If the boys were wearing ripped jeans with no consequence then of course that is a sexist policing of women's bodies.

But I also agree with posters who have pointed out that girls' freedom to wear whatever they want ultimately ends up being shit for girls because liberal feminism + capitalism = girls "choosing" to be sexy and thinking it's freedom.