Feminists unite... I need your opinions WWYD non school uniform related

[HopelesslyHopeful87]

This is going to be so outing but I don't care now. I need opinions as to whether I have a valid point here or if I'm in the wrong.

My DD is in y9. Today is non uniform day for CIN. When the non uniform day was announced the school sent home a long list of what the kids weren't allowed to wear. This list included things like leggings, ripped jeans, cropped tops, low cut tops, skirts, shorts. Very clearly this is aimed at the girls only and very clearly it's about objectifying their bodies. My DD told me that they are always told at school that they can't even show their ankles between their trousers and shoes to ensure the boys aren't distracted. This to me is absolutely ridiculous.

I'm of the opinion that a woman should be allowed to wear whatever she wants and it's more about being respected. This, to me, is skirting around the same lines as a rape victim being blamed that she was dressed provocatively. The list of

Now, obviously she is 13, and common sense tells me that I wouldn't want her going to school with her breasts showing or a skirt up to her bum but I don't see how ripped jeans or leggings is a problem.

I called the school out on this and the pastoral lead told me it was about "safety" not about their image. He claimed after a couple of years of rules and lockdown he wanted them to have a fun day with no rules yet sends out this list of rules. In one breath he said its not about sexualising the female students but in the next breath he says he doesn't feel comfortable with girls wearing leggings without an appropriate length top. When challenged on what an appropriate length top is he said it would have to cover their bums.

Today, to prove a point, my DD has gone in ripped jeans. She has been put in the segregated room for disruptive students and will stay their all day unless I take tights in to put under her jeans. Again, proves that it's about showing skin, not about safety, as the jeans will still be ripped even if she wears tights under them. She has refused and will stay in the isolation all day.

WWYD? Would you have the same opinion as me? I feel really strongly about this sexism but I'm doubting myself a bit and feel bad for DD being punished for this.

[Maireas]

It's a tricky one isn't it. Female clothing is so sexualised. I've noticed this as a teacher of many years, and it seems to increasingly be the case. There's no uniform in the sixth form, the boys wear jeans, joggers, t-shirts, sweatshirts, all practical stuff. Many of the girls wear leggings with crop tops, halter tops, boob tubes, even in November. The gender difference is very striking. On one hand, I really like the girls' body confidence - skin tight leggings and tiny tops. On the other hand, why don't the boys dress like this?
Should schools police this clothing, or shouldn't it matter?
OP, I know you mean something different, but it's part of the same conversation maybe?.

[timeisnotaline]

@HopelesslyHopeful87

In conclusion, I have emailed and made a complaint. After driving past the pupils leaving school this afternoon, it was apparent that there were boys wearing ripped jeans. There was also a girl wearing a pleated mini skirt and fishnet tights. Most other kids were in tracksuits. Clearly the expectation was not formal casual office style like most of you think. My DD says the boy was not made to wear leggings under his jeans. He was allowed to wear them all day with no consequences. Thank you all for your input.

I’d have complained too. School non uniform days are not about casual office attire and it is very weird that multiple posters think so! It’s about a break from what’s always in my experience been fairly strict uniform. Ripped jeans are pretty much office casual in lots of places these days anyway.

[gospelsinger]

Some schools just like clamping down on matters of uniform and can't even stop for one day..

[theelephantinthegroup]

Respect to you and your DD for standing up to this.

My DDs school made a big fuss on non uniform day about 'crop tops' and 'short shorts' and it always made me feel uncomfortable. Apparently the (female) deputy head pulled girls aside and made them tie jumpers from lost property round their waists if they had a any top that showed a glimpse of midriff when they moved.

I am not keen on teenage girls feeling that they need to show off their bodies, but I don't think punishing girls is the way to deal with the problem. As I see it, teenage fashion/media etc tells girls that they need to show off their bodies (you try finding clothing aimed at teenage girls that is not fitted, ripped, tight, short etc!). At non-uniform day, the boys can whatever they choose, because the fashions for boys are not revealing etc (I have never seen an item on the list of things not suitable for non-uniform day that any teenage boy would be seen dead in anyway). The girls have to negotiate a balancing act between what they think they should wear to be fashionable (see above) and what is deemed 'appropriate'. They are never given a sensible reason why certain items are not appropriate but just given a general indication that somehow they are sexual connotations to their clothing choices (when most of the younger teens are just wearing what they see on TV and in the shops and have no idea of sexualisation). This all starts to give girls the idea that they can choose between wearing unfashionable clothes or being 'appropriate', with the obvious connotation that if they are not being appropriate then they are somehow to blame if inappropriate things are said or done to them.

In my opinion, the school badging their clothing rules as 'safety' (without a sensible reason why) is VERY dangerous. Are we telling teenagers that wearing revealing clothing is not safe for them? If so, does that mean we are telling them that they are partly to blame if they are hurt (ie assaulted)?

[LobsterNapkin]

OP, barring the ankle comment, which seems weird, I think you are wrong to separate the dress code from your own statement that obviously they shouldn't wear certain things.

It's not obvious. There is content behind the idea that girls in school shouldn't be going with their chests hanging out. That's not really different than the school's point.

I do wish that schools wouldn't describe this as "not distracting the boys" because I think it gives the wrong idea, but it is part of the issue that maybe seems clearest in the classroom.

But I'd reframe it this way - it's not appropriate for the school to be an environment where the bodies of girls and women are sexualized through the wearing of fashion that is intended for that purpose. It's not good for the girls themselves, and it also isn't good for the boys, because what it tells them is that it's ok for women to be sexualized in that way, and in fact women and girls like and are ok with it.

The fact that a lot of school girls are rather naive about fashion and how it targets women's bodies is kind of beside the point though I'd say this might be something worth learning. Nor does telling the kids, male or female, that it's about choice improve the situation. The idea that women choose to be sexualized isn't really what I wouuld like my sons to conclude from being at school, and that's the logic of choice here. It leads right to the kind of thinking that says porn is ok if people choose to be in it, or sex work is work because women choose it freely.

It is too bad that these lists often impact girls more than boys, but honestly, has it ever been in question that male fashion sexualizes men in the same way? Nor should we want it to. Boys thankfully are mostly spared that problem, too bad girls aren't as well. But simply ignoring that they are in fact treated differently won't make that happen.