Clear link between misogyny and violence

[TheEvilPea]

I am filled with rage reading this article. The figures equate to one violent sexual crime for every two male students! And that's just those they admitted to. But it's good that what is so obvious - that misogynistic beliefs lead to violence against women - has been shown again to be a clear pattern. So misogynism has to be stamped out now.

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/oct/29/research-reveals-rapes-and-assaults-admitted-to-by-male-uk-students

@TheEvilPea

No, it doesn't just matter whether it's true. Obviously it is true that women are more vulnerable if they are young and inexperienced and have had a few drinks. Of course that is true.

My objection is that the solution is to tell women that they should not be able to do that rather than take measures to stamp out the behaviour of the perpetrators.

The question wasn't what was a solution. It was why so many in that group.

Generally though, solutions predicated on what you'd like to work have a high chance of failure.

What I find interesting about the advice given- from accepted societal things to campaigns about keeping safe etc.

Is the way so much of it is aimed at women with the focus invariably on out at night/ pubs clubs/ risks from men you don't know of rape.

Despite the fact that both sexes are at risk if drunk, wandering about late at night etc.

And that sexual assaults etc can happen any time anywhere if predator sees opportunity. And most frequently it's men known/ trusted etc.

Imo it's not about actual risk etc. But something else entirely.

Also -

'Generally though, solutions predicated on what you'd like to work have a high chance of failure.'

This is the whole problem though surely?

Universities failing totally at acting on reports of rape assault etc. Ditto schools (news recently).

Police seeing lots of things men tend to do to women and girls as trivial/ low level and not doing anything. Obv example flashing.. Been well known for decades flashers are often prolific and often escalate.

All that sort of thing.

The 'rules' about how women should 'protect themselves' are extensive. What they mean is that when anything happens there's something the woman did 'wrong'. That's the actual point of them, in the end.

The basics of common sense safety apply to everyone. Men esp young men are at risk too on nights out. Why isn't basic advice given to all...

I'm not sure about this survey. The ordering of questions is peculiar and imo disclosure levels bonkers high.

I'm not convinced by this study but I would say.

What's "unconvincing"? It is based on questions which have been used elsewhere. It corroborates similar research in the US a decade or so ago.

@NiceGerbil

What I find interesting about the advice given- from accepted societal things to campaigns about keeping safe etc.

Is the way so much of it is aimed at women with the focus invariably on out at night/ pubs clubs/ risks from men you don't know of rape.

Despite the fact that both sexes are at risk if drunk, wandering about late at night etc.

And that sexual assaults etc can happen any time anywhere if predator sees opportunity. And most frequently it's men known/ trusted etc.

Imo it's not about actual risk etc. But something else entirely.

I think you've made an incorrect assumption here about this kind of advise being about strangers. It's not. When you have people going out to parties and clubs and doing a lot of drinking, the sexual assault risk for women, particularly with rape, isn't from strangers. It's from the people they are with or hook up with. In university situations particularly has a fair bit of that kind of thing. It's not something middle aged women like myself are at high risk for, when I go see a band in the afternoon at a pub with my husband or friend of 20 years and have a few beers. If I was walking home from a club very drunk with a very drunk man I knew slightly in the wee hours, that's a whole different scenario.

I would say you don't hear many warnings for men to avoid going out and being beaten up by strangers because there is not a ton of effort put into anti-mugging campaigns. Anti-sexual assault campaigns however get some funding and attention, and tend to focus on women.

Incorrect assumption?

Rather than knowledge? Via. Being a girl then a woman?

Eh?

Men get sexually assaulted and raped as well...
FYI.

Riiiiggght.

Yes, we know that.

In far lower numbers though. And also men are raped by other men, mostly attacked or sexually assaulted by other men.

So the issue is men's behaviour and violence.

I would say you don't hear many warnings for men to avoid going out and being beaten up by strangers because there is not a ton of effort put into anti-mugging campaigns. Anti-sexual assault campaigns however get some funding and attention, and tend to focus on women.

None of them should focus on women. Because it is almost exclusively men who commit these crimes against both men and women. Campaigns need to focus on men changing their behaviour, and the men who aren't total dickheads pressuring other men to change their behaviour as well.

@NiceGerbil

Men get sexually assaulted and raped as well... FYI.

Didn't the UKs most prolific rapist solely rape men?

Campaigns need to focus on men changing their behaviour, and the men who aren't total dickheads pressuring other men to change their behaviour as well.

Why is it only the innocent men who need to challenge this behaviour and not also innocent women? It's a problem that affects all of society and men are actually 4x more likely to be assaulted by a stranger than women, making it much riskier for a man to challenge aggressive behaviour.

Because men in general don't give any heed to what women say.

Didn't the UKs most prolific rapist solely rape men?

The most prolific one prosecuted and convicted did, yes. We have no way of knowing if he was actually the most prolific, given how prevalent sexual abuse and rape and apparently not understanding consent appears to be. There are men who seek out and sleep with women every weekend who are so drunk they cannot consent so commit rape on a weekly basis yet have never been prosecuted.

Even amongst those convicted though, the number of female rape victims is orders of magnitude higher than male victims on a national level.

I mean I have done it and still will.

What happens generally is-

They get defensive and try to argue didn't mean it/ just a joke/ don't get knickers in twist

You are clocked as killjoy and they carry on but not when you there

Interestingly more than once a man who was there will find after and say I thought it was out of order / I hate that stuff etc. They NEVER do anything at all at the time though. That's where it would really help if they did something. Anything! However small. Give a Paddington hard stare. That sort of thing!

Sorry that was replying to Kay.

Yes he was and just horrific.

What does that change though?

Anything that improves situation for women/ girls will help male victims as well.

@KayKayWat

Campaigns need to focus on men changing their behaviour, and the men who aren't total dickheads pressuring other men to change their behaviour as well.

Why is it only the innocent men who need to challenge this behaviour and not also innocent women? It's a problem that affects all of society and men are actually 4x more likely to be assaulted by a stranger than women, making it much riskier for a man to challenge aggressive behaviour.

Women do challenge it. But it hasn't made a significant difference, has it? Too many men will sit by quietly if their friends engage misogynistic "banter" (uuuugh, that word makes me cringe) and still remain friends with these people. There is a culture in male-only or male-dominated groups that women can't change so decent men must take responsibility for doing so if they care about their female friends, wives, mothers, daughters, nieces, colleagues etc. Decent people wouldn't minimise or tolerate racist jokes/ behaviour in their friendships and it is just as bad to tolerate misogynistic behaviour.

@NiceGerbil

I mean I have done it and still will.

What happens generally is-

They get defensive and try to argue didn't mean it/ just a joke/ don't get knickers in twist

You are clocked as killjoy and they carry on but not when you there

Interestingly more than once a man who was there will find after and say I thought it was out of order / I hate that stuff etc. They NEVER do anything at all at the time though. That's where it would really help if they did something. Anything! However small. Give a Paddington hard stare. That sort of thing!

Exactly.