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Feminism: chat

Dave Chapelle - thank you

75 replies

RealDinosaurofBarnardCastle · 16/10/2021 21:50

Really recommend his new show on Netflix- he is on the side of feminism and sanity. Thanks Dave ❤️

OP posts:
logsonlogsoff · 25/10/2021 11:05

DaBaby was arrested, but with no independent witnesses let go as he said it was self defence or so he claimed.
He was prosecuted ir arrested in anyway for the homophobia or hate crimes etc either. His ‘punishment’ for ranting on about gays and AIDs etc at a gig was to have other festivals decide they didn’t want him playing.
The two things aren’t the same. And using them to show how the ‘feelings’ of ‘gays’ are the most important thing in America all of a sudden is absolute nonsense.

Fifteentoes · 25/10/2021 11:29

This comparison is so ridiculously contrived. For a start, if you want to lay a charge of hypocrisy against those condemning DaBaby's homophobia, you'd have to ask them individually why they didn't condemn the killing in Walmart. Who knows, maybe they did? But I'd hazard a guess that in a country where such killings take place routinely every day, and in a case where he was apparently exhonerated on the basis of self defence, it barely registered on the radar.

But more to the point: I know Chappelle was making that comparison. That wasn't the point I was making. I was referring to the fact that, later in the program, he appealed to people not to "cancel" DaBaby, quite separately from any reference to the murder. He said how "taking away someone's livelihood is equivalent to killing them" and earnestly asked people not to do it. He didn't even admit that DaBaby had said horrendous things but then suggest he should be forgiven. He just pretended that there was no reasonable basis for condemning him at all.

I had to google afterwards to find out what DaBaby actually said (quoted above). I seriously can't believe that some people here can only respond to it with whataboutery about how racism is so much worse, and still see Chappelle as some kind of hero. Jesus.

SolasAnla · 25/10/2021 12:18

logsonlogsoff we apper to be reading from the same paper

ww.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article228642214.html

On Thursday, prosecutors made a motion in court to continue the case against Kirk “because a key civilian witness was unavailable,” DA’s Office spokeswoman Meghan McDonald said in Saturday’s email to the Observer.
Mecklenburg County District Court Judge Matt Osman denied the motion, according to McDonald. It was not immediately known Saturday why Osman denied the motion.

“Without that witness, the State could not proceed, and as a result, dismissed the charge,” she said in the email.

The cost of a murder trial in the States from $250,000 to 2m for a death penalty case

It could be that it was self defence.
Its "he said, he is dead".
Or it may have been manslaughter

Either way the parents of the man who was killed don't feel justice was done.

In the end the person who killed another young Black man gets the last word and goes on with live life with other festivals decide they do want him playing

‘gays’ are the most important thing in America all of a sudden is absolute nonsense

He is saying he is looking at of social class and privileged positions of power "Black Lives Matter" v "Trans live matter"

He is not a stupid man he knows that people would watch the Closer and dismiss BLM and focus on TLM

SolasAnla · 25/10/2021 12:32

PressingTeams
Is it still available and is it worth £5.99?!

Buy a sub to a streaming service that has it

Isn't something i found funny but its interesting as a calculated social commentary

Interrobanger · 25/10/2021 13:25

you'd have to ask them individually why they didn't condemn the killing in Walmart. Who knows, maybe they did? But I'd hazard a guess that in a country where such killings take place routinely every day, and in a case where he was apparently exhonerated on the basis of self defence, it barely registered on the radar

But Chappelle’s implied rebuttal to that is: if DaBaby’s victim was white, you can be sure that the ‘self-defence’ defence would be thrown out and he would’ve been looking at a murder charge.

But because the victim was black it was ‘just another killing in a state where loads of black men killed in shootings, no big deal’.

DaBaby obviously isn’t a very nice piece of work. But it takes some white gays getting upset rather than a black man getting killed for anyone to notice or call him out on it.

SolasAnla · 25/10/2021 13:59

He said how "taking away someone's livelihood is equivalent to killing them"

Why do you not agree with that statement?

My "take" is that this is beyond the pale, and the person who said it deserves to be cancelled from the fucking human race, not just a few social media plateforms.

Ok so our base line of social acceptable behaviours is that bad words should result in cancelling from the human race as in death?

This comparison [action v words, as in killing a human v a homophobic rant] is so ridiculously contrived.

One person did both actions.
If the penalty for bad words is death what is the penalty for killing someone?

For a start, if you want to lay a charge of hypocrisy against those condemning DaBaby's homophobia, you'd have to ask them individually why they didn't condemn the killing in Walmart.

Why is there a need to ask them individually when they came out to make public condemnations only after the homophobia?
Actions v words?

Who knows, maybe they did?

Where were the public condemnations, the refusal to book him after killing a black man?
Actions V words?

But I'd hazard a guess that in a country where such killings take place routinely every day,

What do you mean by "such killings" Black on Black killings, Black Rap culture, something else?

and in a case where he was apparently exhonerated on the basis of self defence, it barely registered on the radar.

You checked for the exact words a Rapper said but when the same Rapper is reported to have killed a young Black man in a supermarket you check and assume because of the words he said then that he is "innocent of murder"

He just pretended that there was no reasonable basis for condemning him at all.

He said how "taking away someone's livelihood is equivalent to killing them"

Why do you not agree with that statement?

Fifteentoes · 25/10/2021 15:20

He said how "taking away someone's livelihood is equivalent to killing them"

Why do you not agree with that statement?

I don't agree with it because it isn't true. Taking away someone's livelihood is not killing them, because they can go and find some other means of livelihood and still be alive.

But that's not the point, because the people cancelling DaBaby are NOT "taking away his livelihood", they're just making a decision on behalf of themselves or their organisations, not to contribute to that livelihood. I haven't seen anyone suggesting that DaBaby should be banned from making records, or people banned from buying them. But if a festival organiser feels for whatever reason that his values are incompatible with those of the festival they're trying to promote, then they're within their rights (presumeably, the conditions of any pre-agreed contract between them notwithstanding) not to have him perform there.

This is the weird thing about right wing outrage at so-called "cancel culture". All that culture actually consists of is a bunch of consumers exercising their right to make their own judgment whose products and services they want to consume, and communicating with each other about it. But the kind of people who froth at the mouth about every perceived slight to their "freedom of speech" often seem strangely resistant to other people exercising just such freedom in a way they don't like.

My "take" is that this is beyond the pale, and the person who said it deserves to be cancelled from the fucking human race, not just a few social media platforms.

Ok so our base line of social acceptable behaviours is that bad words should result in cancelling from the human race as in death?

No, I didn't mean death (obviously). I meant I want nothing whatsoever to do with the fucker, would not buy his records, attend a festival where he was performing, talk to him at a party or piss on him if he was on fire. And I'll happily and openly communicate that to others.

For a start, if you want to lay a charge of hypocrisy against those condemning DaBaby's homophobia, you'd have to ask them individually why they didn't condemn the killing in Walmart.

Why is there a need to ask them individually when they came out to make public condemnations only after the homophobia?
Actions v words?

Because they may not even have been aware of the killing. Or they may have figured that because it was ruled self defence, it was excusable. Or there may be some other reason - you can't know until you ask them.

But I'd hazard a guess that in a country where such killings take place routinely every day,

What do you mean by "such killings" Black on Black killings, Black Rap culture, something else?

Just "killings" generally. My understanding is that the USA has a high murder rate.

I'm not sure that we're actually having the argument you think we're having here. For avoidance of doubt: I think there's a perfectly sound point to be made about the USA's societal tolerance of murder of black people. I just don't see how this is the way to do it. "Black lives matter" and "gay lives matter" is not a zero sum game.

And anyway, where does the idea come from that people only condemn homophobia and transphobia by bigots like Chappelle and DaBaby because it's attacking white people? You know there are actually gay black (and Asian, and Jewish and everything else) people, too? None of DaBaby's comments said anything about WHITE people with AIDS, giving blowjobs in the parking lot etc. So wtf has race even got to do with it? He was attacking and dehumanising gay people of his own race as much as anyone else.

Chappelle's remarks at the end of the Closer make clear he's happily tolerant of those comments, and that people shouldn't allow them to inform their actions. I disagree with him and think that's a vile position. You don't, because it's apparently only possible to acknowledge the humanity of one minority at a time. We'll just have to agree to differ.

logsonlogsoff · 25/10/2021 15:32

‘ He said how "taking away someone's livelihood is equivalent to killing them"

Why do you not agree with that statement?’

Because that’s clearly bullcrap. DaBaby not getting to go to Lollapalooza is NOT the same as killing him. He’s hardly destitute. And given the homophobia, misogyny common in a lot of the rap culture I’m sure there’s still plenty of people out there who see no issue with him and will happily buy his music.

SolasAnla · 25/10/2021 16:11

Taking away someone's livelihood is not killing them, because they can go and find some other means of livelihood and still be alive.

In the context of the Rapper's actions, noted in the thread, can you give me an example of what killing someone is?

I'm not sure that we're actually having the argument you think we're having here.

I know we aren't but as its in the context of one of the underlying themes of the Closer it's still an interesting discussion

Chappelle's remarks at the end of the Closer make clear he's happily tolerant of those comments, and that people shouldn't allow them to inform their actions. I disagree with him and think that's a vile position. You don't, because it's apparently only possible to acknowledge the humanity of one minority at a time. We'll just have to agree to differ.

Kindly supply some of my quotes to support your statement that I believe it's apparently only possible to acknowledge the humanity of one minority at a time.

SolasAnla · 25/10/2021 16:19

Because that’s clearly bullcrap. DaBaby not getting to go to Lollapalooza is NOT the same as killing him.

What would be the same as killing him and is also an common acceptable behaviour along with homophobia, misogyny in a lot of the rap culture?

debbrianna · 25/10/2021 19:35

Interestingly, every black person I follow was aware of Dababy's behaviour and constantly questioned why he was not being cancelled. The last straw was when he hit a woman in front of everyone. Got away with it and went to feature on a Dua lipa song.

Secondly, Dua lipa was OK with him being on her record knowing his track record. She cared more about her music until she was asked in an interview about his behaviour regarding the horrible homophobia at the festival. She still didn't take him off her record. It was that evening when it came out about how she doesnt support his language and belief. If people like Elton john or boohoo handed reacted. She would have kept him. She didn't agree with him but kept him on.

It is right to cancel the Dababy, however, with the multiples of public offences that happened before hand. It should have been sooner.

Dave Chapel basically compared this to the Jussie Smollett in the previous release becuase they all follow a pattern with different examples. The space Jews is also a play on words with this one becuase if you notice he can't say they word Jews/jussie Plus him talking about Palestine without talking about Palestine.

I also think the Michael Jackson joke was to get people to think about molestation. A lot of people cannot bring themselves to think of Mj as somone who can. So he is telling them that. If you watch the previous episode, the context was almost like he broached the subject then left and went on to talk about r kelly.

SolasAnla · 25/10/2021 22:08

@debbrianna

I got the Israel/ Palestine reference.
So "space Jews" also a ploy for referencing Jussie Smollett -> Juicy Smooyea -> Space Juicy
because he was in the Alien movie Covenant or am I missing additional context?

debbrianna · 25/10/2021 23:28

@SolasAnla you are right. And those who heard the the joke before would have connected the two and started to laugh becuase of a previous joke. Which makes it sound even more crass, at the same time another uncomfortable point is being made within. I heard it as juicy Sommelier.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 26/10/2021 09:41

This is the weird thing about right wing outrage at so-called "cancel culture". All that culture actually consists of is a bunch of consumers exercising their right to make their own judgment whose products and services they want to consume, and communicating with each other about it

That's not true though is it? Cancel culture is frequently built on lies and blatantly false smears, for example the attacks on J K Rowling where the reality of what she wrote bore no resemblance to the deranged accusations against her. So there's no free will involved, just activists trying to create a narrative so false it is shocking in an effort to influence others into acting the way they want. There's no honesty, no rationality, just a screeching mob. But then I'm not right wing, not that it would matter if I was, anything is better than the post-truth faux leftism we have now.

Reptar · 26/10/2021 11:48

right wing outrage ODFOD. Its getting stale now.

''Space Jews'' was surely a reference to the demented claim that there are Jewish space lasers? You're seriously wide of the mark.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/marjorie-taylor-greene-got-into-a-screaming-match-with-rep-cheney-over-jewish-space-lasers-comment/ar-AAPOc7R

BudgeSquare · 26/10/2021 11:54

[quote Reptar]right wing outrage ODFOD. Its getting stale now.

''Space Jews'' was surely a reference to the demented claim that there are Jewish space lasers? You're seriously wide of the mark.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/marjorie-taylor-greene-got-into-a-screaming-match-with-rep-cheney-over-jewish-space-lasers-comment/ar-AAPOc7R[/quote]
No, it was nothing to do with that. It was a routine equating Jews to Nazis & down playing/ ridiculing the Holocaust.

Why are you posting links and saying "surely it was.. " when you obviously haven't heard the routine?

Are you generally in the habit of telling minority groups they don't understand racism against them, or is it just Jews?

CruellaDeVilla · 26/10/2021 17:46

Dave Chapelle’s response to this nonsense

Fifteentoes · 26/10/2021 19:04

@Alltheprettyseahorses

This is the weird thing about right wing outrage at so-called "cancel culture". All that culture actually consists of is a bunch of consumers exercising their right to make their own judgment whose products and services they want to consume, and communicating with each other about it

That's not true though is it? Cancel culture is frequently built on lies and blatantly false smears, for example the attacks on J K Rowling where the reality of what she wrote bore no resemblance to the deranged accusations against her. So there's no free will involved, just activists trying to create a narrative so false it is shocking in an effort to influence others into acting the way they want. There's no honesty, no rationality, just a screeching mob. But then I'm not right wing, not that it would matter if I was, anything is better than the post-truth faux leftism we have now.

In cases where that is so, I totally agree with you about the lies and false smears. Noone should ever attribute something to someone they didn't actually say, or deliberately misinterpret what they did say in an exaggerated fashion to make it appear other than what it is.

I don't think that's a unique feature of cancel culture though, or particularly of "post-truth faux leftism". It's been a fairly constant feature of even mainstream rightism since forever (Mail, Express etc.) although it does seem to be getting worse throughout our political culture, sadly.

However I don't think this is particularly relevant to the case at hand, because DaBaby wasn't cancelled because of an untrue or exaggerated report of what he said. Such a report wasn't necessary - what he ACTUALLY said was bad enough. Though not bad enough, apparently, to concern DC.

SolasAnla · 27/10/2021 01:18

@debbrianna
I heard it as juicy Sommelier.

Ok I see the play in words -> Just Sommelier

Thanks I need to go back and listen to the context when it came up the second time.

@BudgeSquare
No, it was nothing to do with that. It was a routine equating Jews to Nazis & down playing/ ridiculing the Holocaust.

Where was this context included in the Closer (thanks)?

SolasAnla · 27/10/2021 01:30

@Fifteentoes
In cases where that is so, I totally agree with you about the lies and false smears. Noone should ever attribute something to someone they didn't actually say, or deliberately misinterpret what they did say in an exaggerated fashion to make it appear other than what it is

If this ^ is your belief system?
Are you able to document what you attributed to me in the post below?
A simple copy & paste of my statements should do it?

Chappelle's remarks at the end of the Closer make clear he's happily tolerant of those comments, and that people shouldn't allow them to inform their actions. I disagree with him and think that's a vile position. You don't, because it's apparently only possible to acknowledge the humanity of one minority at a time. We'll just have to agree to differ.

Again kindly supply some of my quotes to support your statement that I believe it's apparently only possible to acknowledge the humanity of one minority at a time.

BudgeSquare · 27/10/2021 11:48

[quote SolasAnla]**@debbrianna
I heard it as juicy Sommelier.

Ok I see the play in words -> Just Sommelier

Thanks I need to go back and listen to the context when it came up the second time.

@BudgeSquare
No, it was nothing to do with that. It was a routine equating Jews to Nazis & down playing/ ridiculing the Holocaust.

Where was this context included in the Closer (thanks)?[/quote]
No, it was nothing to do with that. It was a routine equating Jews to Nazis & down playing/ ridiculing the Holocaust.

Where was this context included in the Closer (thanks)?

Are you trolling? Sealioning? Gaslighting? Whatever the word is.

That is what the routine is about.

Fifteentoes · 27/10/2021 11:54

OK I take it back.

It's perfectly possible there's some other reason why you need to avoid acknowledging the severity of vile homophobic abuse, and respond to it only by changing the subject to some other form of discrimination.

SolasAnla · 27/10/2021 15:28

@BudgeSquare
Are you trolling? Sealioning? Gaslighting? Whatever the word is.

That is what the routine is about.

No.
I genuinely asking for your observations.

I understood the intro on the film idea
Jewish people left Israel/Palestine and their descendants were resettled there after the holocaust
With unspoken subtext of the current conflict and the Israeli Government handling of it plus International reaction

I am aware he said X but was saying Y with people laughing at an in joke.
The comment was not IMO amusing so the audiences reaction was OTT and I felt Spacejucie had an additional in joke context which I was not picking up on.

Would you disagree that Spacejucie is also being used to reference the Actor?

Or we should only replace the word SpaceJuice with Jew?

I know some of the context will be from his prior body of work, some will nuanced / culturally biased etc.

In the intro he asked if a gay (replace with black) man can be a racist then he opts to use casually racist language against White people.
He also uses the word Bitch and N*gger in a targeted way.

Some words/comments appear as random throwaway but are carefuly constructed introductions to enable and/or support additional comment later on

An easy spot is the "Google Dictionary Definition of a woman feminist which is a woman human who....

Is looking up the dictionary to find the word woman replaced by human coincidence or an in joke and his intro for later

The same thing happens with "ain't I a woman"

But the burst of laughter over Covid and Magic Johnson comment appears throwaway but is not.
He is Sports star, Wealthy, Famous, Black, Male, Heterosexual, HIV survivor

And in the USA HIV (like Covid) has a race issue element

www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/racialethnic/africanamericans/index.html

Anyway I will replace Spacejucie with Jew next time I listen to it because I was focused on what I missed.
So please feel free to point out which bits I should listen to again

SolasAnla · 27/10/2021 15:53

@Fifteentoes

OK I take it back.

It's perfectly possible there's some other reason why you need to avoid acknowledging the severity of vile homophobic abuse, and respond to it only by changing the subject to some other form of discrimination.

What a nice way to say

I should not have attributed something to you when I can't show you any proof of what I claim you said
I can not support my claim, I can not prove I did not deliberately misinterpret what you did say in an exaggerated fashion to make what you did say appear other than what it is.

I do appreciate your subtlety.

As a matter of interest, you watched the Closer and googled the Rapper to help you decide if you would talk to him at a party and/or piss on him if he was on fire.

Which part of the Rapper's history did you prioritises in the first search?

Killing someone in a supermarket or the concert?

AryaStarkWolf · 28/01/2022 13:36

Dave Chappelle’s ‘The Closer’ Nabs Two Guild Award Nominations

variety.com/2022/tv/news/dave-chappelle-the-closer-dga-pga-nominations-1235165284/

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