Incredible heroism of Afghani women today

[mokojolo]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58450230
www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/9/4/women-march-in-kabul-to-demand-role-in-taliban-government

Day two of protests in Kabul and Herat from astoundingly brave women fighting for the rights of women in Afghanistan under the Taliban. How can we help them? I feel we must-- it's our duty to stand behind these women. What can we do?

[thinkingaboutLangCleg]

Thanks for the AMAR links, ChristinaXYZ. I've now donated.

[PickUpAPepper]

Feminism and equality aren't the same because feminists won't fight for male issues.

Well that’s you identified clearly then, as a typical male chauvinist and idiot. Or a comedian. In other news, cats are bigots because they don’t fight for the rights of dogs, and birds need to hand over all their fledglings right now to be eaten by cats or else they will be told they are NOT NICE.

I have also come across Women For Afghan Women, but don’t know a lot about them. womenforafghanwomen.org/

[NiceGerbil]

Hmm

There is a good argument that the consequences of a lot of Feminist aims (well a certain type of feminist) will benefit men massively.

And there's another sort of feminism which says sex work is work porn is fab etc which I think across the board a majority of men are pretty thumbs up on that.

Meanwhile.

I can't remember that men fight for women's rights much... Certainly not nearly 1 in 10!

There's also the point that women have always rejected the feminist label while actually being quite keen on having abortion rights and trying to reduce sex offences/ catch offenders. As examples.

So. Well.

[ColorMagicBarbie]

Well that’s you identified clearly then, as a typical male chauvinist and idiot. Or a comedian. In other news, cats are bigots because they don’t fight for the rights of dogs, and birds need to hand over all their fledglings right now to be eaten by cats or else they will be told they are NOT NICE.

Not sure where you're getting all this from. My point isn't that feminism needs to cater for men. Simply that it's disingenuous to suggest that helping men is even remotely a priority to most feminists.

[NiceGerbil]

'20:26PickUpAPepper

ColorMagicBarbie

-As for this: I pay taxes that pay their wages, and let’s just remember when people tell us to be grateful for male protection, that that protection is only ever needed against other males.

-Aside from female suicide bombers and terrorists like Samantha Lewthwaite and Shamima Begum.

-Men are just desperate to blame women for life the universe and everything aren’t they? There is no rationality left in it. We should have the laws of misogyny pinned to the top of these boards. And meanwhile, is harassing women really the only hobby you two have? Do you really think it shows off your strengths?'

I can't see an attack on men there in any way whatsoever.

[NiceGerbil]

'Simply that it's disingenuous to suggest that helping men is even remotely a priority to most feminists.'

Erm. Clue's in the name. Why would Feminists be thinking about how to help men when

Men have the majority of the power resources etc in the world and are therefore in a better position to fight for change/ for men's issues.

The life for men under the taleban was appalling. Different to women and girls but shit nevertheless. I don't remember seeing much/ anything in the way of men in RL on media etc talking about this.

You are annoyed? Angered? By the concern and dismay of the situation for women and girls under the taleban by women in the UK?

You think it's unwarranted? Or that it's unfair?

I would never in a million years go into a male dominated board talking about the concern about the lives of men under the taleban and say their discussion was unfair etc. Obviously.

What concerns do you have about the life for men and boys under the taleban, what are you doing about it in terms of anything from online discussion to donating to charities or maybe something more? Isn't your time better spent discussing this with men to raise awareness?

[NiceGerbil]

And you know women who are feminists often have more than one interest.

They have dads sons etc. Male work colleagues. Friends. Men close to them who have certain experiences illnesses etc that they care about and support help around.

Like most people. A range of political and social concerns etc.

[ColorMagicBarbie]

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

less than 10% of UK women identify as feminists. ... The same study found that nearly three quarters supported equality despite only 7% wanting to be called a feminist.

Could you give us a link to that study, please, ColorMagicBarbie? I'd be interested to see who carried it out, on behalf of which organisation, and how the questions were worded.

If nearly 3/4 supported equality for men and women, but only 7% wanted to be called feminists, it suggests that participants support feminist policies but don't want to be labelled.

But I'd need to read the study to understand more.

Thank you.

It was by the Fawcett Society who campaign for gender equality and women's rights.

A similar disjunct was apparent in a poll commissioned by the Fawcett Society as part of its sex-equality report in early 2016. It found that a measly seven per cent of people call themselves feminists – rising to just nine per cent of women. And yet, 67 per cent of the respondents supported equality for men and women.

A YouGov survey has found that just 26 per cent of people in Britain would call themselves a feminist, including just 34 per cent of women. Those most likely to say they were feminists were women in their twenties who live in London and are in the three highest socio-economic grades.

www.spiked-online.com/2019/02/08/most-women-are-not-feminists/amp/

[ColorMagicBarbie]

I likely have similar views to the women in those surveys. I'd be classed as a feminist for many of my views (like how the Fawcett Society tries to say "oh, they're feminists but they just don't know it").

The goals are admirable but in reality the movement just seems to attract a lot of bigoted people who I don't want to be associated with. It really pisses me off when they try and speak on my behalf using the banner of 'women', when they constitute a tiny minority.

[NiceGerbil]

What are your thoughts on the situation that the men in Afghanistan are facing?

I mean I can't imagine the taleban have really changed since last time.

[ColorMagicBarbie]

I don't imagine it's great but it probably has less restrictions than the women will face. Ultimately, I'm not even really sure what the majority vote would be for men. Perhaps they would vote in favour of sharia law, I don't know.

[NiceGerbil]

You can't imagine it's great?

Imagine? Don't you know?

A vote? Eh?!

Ok so you imagine things are worse for women there but you don't actually know.

You suggest but don't know that men there if they could vote might majority vote for taleban rule.

So you are concerned that women on here are focussed on the plight of women.
And not the plight of men.

But you don't seem to have much of an idea on the plight of men.

I find that very peculiar.

If your concern is equalism and it's not on for women to focus on the plight of women there.

Then I'd have thought the plight of men there would be a concern for you.

You have no idea what it was like for men before? I do. And I'm a feminist. You don't. What does that say.

[NiceGerbil]

Also Sharia law has multiple very different interpretations.

The taleban approach is not what it is full stop.

A Christian approach around the world means very different things indeed.

[ColorMagicBarbie]

@NiceGerbil

You can't imagine it's great?

Imagine? Don't you know?

A vote? Eh?!

Ok so you imagine things are worse for women there but you don't actually know.

You suggest but don't know that men there if they could vote might majority vote for taleban rule.

So you are concerned that women on here are focussed on the plight of women.
And not the plight of men.

But you don't seem to have much of an idea on the plight of men.

I find that very peculiar.

If your concern is equalism and it's not on for women to focus on the plight of women there.

Then I'd have thought the plight of men there would be a concern for you.

You have no idea what it was like for men before? I do. And I'm a feminist. You don't. What does that say.

So you're saying that the benchmark for empathy around Western men's issues is having a detailed knowledge of the political leanings of the public in a specific country in South Asia? Um ok.

I don't see how that in any way negates the belief that many feminists just use feminism as a cover to basically trash all men and pretend they're 'speaking on behalf of women'. I'm sure many don't do it facetiously and truly believe what they say, but the average woman clearly sees it as a bit demented at times.

[AssassinatedBeauty]

If feminists are to be criticised for supposedly speaking for all women, then perhaps you should examine why you feel you can speak on behalf of the "average woman".

[AliasGrape]

So you're saying that the benchmark for empathy around Western men's issues is having a detailed knowledge of the political leanings of the public in a specific country in South Asia? Um ok

The benchmark for crapping all over a thread about the bravery of women in Afghanistan with a load of ‘what about the menz’ bollocks has to be at least a passing interested in the men you’re using as an excuse to derail the thread, surely?

[NiceGerbil]

Eh?

You are on this thread which is how can we help women in Afghanistan is there a way.

You have said that women focusing on women when it comes to Feminism is not good because no thought for men etc.

And asked what about the men in Afghanistan their situation is terrible.

You respond by

Saying you don't actually know what it was like for men there last time, the things that happened

Saying if there was a vote for men there (a huge hypocritical) that maybe they would vote for 'sharia law' which you Apparently equate to what the taleban want.
That's a guess there was no need for and shows a really dodgy view of men living in Afghanistan.
I thought your issue was that men need more support so that guess is. Well not supportive of men imo.

[NiceGerbil]

Oh sorry missed this.

'So you're saying that the benchmark for empathy around Western men's issues is having a detailed knowledge of the political leanings of the public in a specific country in South Asia? Um ok.'

What?

Afghanistan is not just some country over there. It's been in the news headlines for weeks. Whole news broadcasts have been devoted to it.

We were iirc the first to invade yonks ago as strategic move against Russia. The history is long and complicated. The invasion after 9/11 was massively contested at the time.

So it's not just some random country. How can you even say that with what's been happening?

And you say what about Western men??? What about them? As a person interested in men's rights don't you care about all men??? Just Western men?

You are angry that women in the UK are asking what can we do to help women in Afghanistan. Because we are not paying equal attention to the issues Western men have?

Holy moly.

[NiceGerbil]

So what's your view on-

The situation in male prisons re drugs MH violence and so on?

The apparent return of football hooliganism and the rise of neo Nazi groups. And the gang situation in various areas. What can be done to reduce the attraction of these things for men and boys? Is it certain groups that should be focused on?

The tranche of white boys who are underperforming at school? How to identify and tackle the root cause?

I assume these issues are on your mind as someone who is interested in the situation for Western men.

[SeanChailleach]

Fawzia Koofi, Nadia Momand, Pashtana Durrani and Nighat Dad, are Afghan women to follow on social media then from them you can learn about other women and what is happening.
The Rumie education project seems useful - Durrani has a GoFundMe for education also. Make sure that you find the real Pashtana Durrani as someone is impersonating her.

I am reading "Dear Zari" - harrowing but I knew nothing about Afghanistan and have to start somewhere.

Journalists including Marcus Yam, Lyse Doucet are out there still.