Feminism: chat
Being called a Karen by dc how would you handle it?
CervixSampler · 04/08/2021 01:14
It gives me the rage and dds know not to use the term but one of them called me Karen today and she's now grounded. Misogyny and sexism is so ingrained it's a regular battle to challenge them. They ribbon and sticker with me but believe boys look like girls if they have long hair, boys can't wear make up or nail polish etc yet girls with short hair don't look like boys in their view. It's really wound me up today. Ds saw a woman with a big industrial type strimmer today and commented that he didn't think women could do that job. I told him women can do any job so he said he's only seen men doing big strimming jobs. He quite happily accepted that just because he's never seen a woman do it it doesn't mean women can't. He's only 6 so we don't get too deeply into things. He has long hair and has joined his sisters and me in painting our toes for the summer. I think why not, his sister thinks it's weird and only for girls 🙄 They look fab with his walking sandals as his nails are the same blue as his sandals. But I digress... how do you handle the Karen shit from teenagers?
CervixSampler · 04/08/2021 01:40
Aye, she wants me to buy her a long list of clothing but doesn't think she needs to do anything to get them. They aren't anything essential either, it's fancy cosplay type stuff. If anyone dares to call her anything she's incandescent with rage but it's ok to call me Karen if I ask her to do something she doesn't want to do it's the sneery tone that comes with it too. I'd not have sat down for a week if I spoke to my mother like that. It would never have occurred to me to be so bloody rude to anyone.
CervixSampler · 04/08/2021 02:37
Do you have a link to that discussion please so that I could show her? I don't think she has a clue what it really means and reading it might be better than hearing it from me. Everyone says it apparently. Some little runt called it me in the park last week. He was about 10 years old ffs.
NiceGerbil · 04/08/2021 03:21
DS is 6?
Children that age seem to often go through a period of rigid sex stereotypes even if they are close to people who don't conform.
Eg
Doctors are men (mum is s doctor)
Football is for boys (sister plays at regional level).
It passes. Annoying but pretty standard.
How old are your girls?
endofthelinefinally · 04/08/2021 03:46
Naunet · 04/08/2021 08:15
She seems to embrace stereotypes, I might have her live with them for a while (depending on her age). She’s a girl, so lots of housework, no running around, she should be doing nice quiet activities. Maybe teach her how to iron a man’s shirt? And then when she moans, call her Karen. At the end you can show her how dismissing women as Karen, is purely about taking away their voice.
NumberTheory · 04/08/2021 13:04
I give mine a lecture about racism and how appropriating a term meant to highlight racial power imbalance that’s particularly devastating for black working class people of colour in order to promote their own white, middle class standing is pretty awful. Stops them at the time but they still keep doing it. It’s endemic in their peer group.
MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 04/08/2021 13:14
@NiceGerbil
Teens press your buttons. They know you well and what will hit home.
Coming down hard tells them they have succeeded.
Agree. I hate the Karen slur, but grounding someone for using it is ridiculous. Surely you want her to understand why using Karen is wrong, not just bludgeon her into not doing so?
I'd just keep my response light and say, "If you're going to call me Karen, I'm going to call you [insert non-abusive but annoying name e.g. snowflake]". Or play up the stereotype and say, "Fine, if I'm a Karen, here are all the things I wish to complain about" and list them. The latter could be quite therapeutic 😀
FeelingBored · 04/08/2021 13:20
@NumberTheory
This is great!
PaleGreenGhost · 04/08/2021 13:30
@Naunet
This is a wonderful idea and in keeping with natural consequences which make a lot more sense to kids than random punishments.
I wonder what a similar consequence for a boy could be?
SmokedDuck · 04/08/2021 13:41
I think NiceGerbil is right. They've learned to push your buttons, so it's a difficult to resist tactic.
In general I'd ignore as much as possible, but I'd also say, at an opportune moment, calling people names like that, is just disrespectful to others on a basic level, even the people you disagree with - kind of the opposite of "be kind". Reactionary name calling doesn't make their views look well-thought out.
PaleGreenGhost · 04/08/2021 13:43
@NumberTheory
I get where you are going with this and it's clever, but the issue is 9 times out of 10 when the Karen slur is used in the UK it is misogynist, and half of the time classist as well (women named Karen in the UK are typically not as posh as their US counterparts).
The UK only discovered the story behind "Karen" relatively recently yet misogynists have been flinging it for a few years. On social media I learned that Karen has an inverted bob, Karen buys a poster with "Love" on it for her wall and most of all that Karen won't lie down and be fucked over by men. That has precisely fuck all to do with race and actually in the UK the Karen slur is often directed at BAME women as well.
Squills · 04/08/2021 13:49
I don't know if you'd think this would be suitable for the age group you mention but it would certainly give them a feel for what it would be like if their name were used in a derogatory fashion. It may make them think again before using it.
The link below is to an empathy generator. It gives real-life examples of how the Karen meme is being used. You put your own name into it and it changes the name Karen to your own. It gives a powerful insight into how those called Karen feel when their name is used in such dreadful ways.
karenismyname.org/renamer
NumberTheory · 04/08/2021 14:00
@PaleGreenGhost
We’re in the states at the moment which makes the history of the term easier to access. But even here it seems to be used as a mysoginistic attack far more than a way of pointing out racism. (i seen it used most by middle-class white guys). But racism is the prejudice that my kids think of as the “worst” possible prejudice and it gives a lever into discussing what they are actually criticising when they use it.
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