"England were last in the finals in 1966"

[selflove]

No. England last made the finals in 1984 & 2009.

It's just the men's team that hasn't made it since 1966.

@MargaritaPie

To put it bluntly I think the main reason men's football is more popular than women's is because of the physical advantage men have over women, the quality of football will naturally be a lot higher and therefore more entertaining to watch.

I think there's been a couple of embarrassing games where a woman's national team has been beaten by an amateur high school boy's team, which has made a mockery of women's professional football for some.

Money is also a huge issue.

Some of the larger clubs started playing their womens team straight after the mens to see if fans would stay and watch. Any team needs investment, but that investment has to come from a combinated of ticket sales and sponsorship.

The rugby club I play for are partnered with a womens team, we train together and often play charity friendlies together etc. The turnout for us is still much higher than the womens team, we also find it much easier to get sponsorship deals and promotion in general.

Its also harder to even find the players for female teams, we have five teams and a pathway to rugby team. Our sister club have 1 team. There being fewer teams also means smaller leagues, fewer games in a season etc.

Pay is a huge issue, for a short time I was a fulltime rugby player, I earned enough that it was my only job and I didn’t work part time on the side. That just isn’t possible in womens rugby clubs who are in the same league. Its the same in football, a colleague used to play for Spurs, she still needed a fulltime job to pay her bills. But the only way to really solve that is to invest to make sure there are more bums on seats and better sponsorship deals.

Womens football used to be HUGE here. A real money making thing. Including all the support services.

Then men stopped it.

It's because of films like Bend it like Beckham that they were once again highlighted.

It's criminal.

I've discussed the physiological issues with Margarita before, Simon. They keep trotting out that rather trite fact as though in repetition it will gain some truth.

It won't... I know why it happens, you know why it happens, anyone directly involved know it. But still this particular poster trots it out like some kind of proof that women just can't play.

Billie Jean King
The Williams Sisters

Many others have proved the natural physical advantage of being male.

No advantage in tactics or skill levels though.

same happened when Tim won the tennis....its only a win if its a male win

Yes. See the coverage and SM snarkiness about the young female wildcard...

Yes!

@PurpleHoodie

What are the Welsh/Scottish and NI Women's teams called?

(For shame on me)

Well, the Welsh men's team is, unsurprisingly, called the Dragons so I sincerely hope the women's is the Dragonesses.

I don't know if the Scots have a name. Both the men's and women's NI teams appear to be called the Green and White army. A pity the women can't make a small adjustment and add purple!

The point SimonJT makes about money is so important. Even if we do accept the argument about skill (which I don't obviously), men's teams have access to elite coaching teams who can give much more 1:1 training. Manchester City and Chelsea invest heavily in their women's teams and they are very well regarded. Casey Stoney was doing incredible things with Man United women but she left after becoming disillusioned with the infrastructure to support the team - eg they play on a terrible pitch (they have only played at Old Trafford once) and changing facilities are virtually non existent.

@RufustheBadgeringReindeer

It was like the first british person in space

Everyone was saying tim peake when it was actually Helen Sharman

YY and when that was pointed out. It was all oh yes of course we remembered that! But we decided not to mention her at all even in passing because of the type of mission it was. So you see it's all fine!

The sad fact is womens football isn't really comparable to men's football - I've tried watching a few games but frankly it's slow paced and boring. I'm not sure it will ever draw the appeal of the men's game. That's not to say these women aren't great sportswomen - just from a spectator's point of view it's not as exciting.

As another poster pointed out they are two very different styles of game and as women's football is a relatively recent addition to sporting history it really isn't worth trying to shoehorn it in (in the context of the OP's point).

I like the discussion point that boils down to. Women's sports are understandably ignored in situations like this because even though they are an England national squad. The fact is they are weaker and therefore naturally less skilled and so well you know. They're not mentioned because what they're doing is just meh.

I agree and that's why I only ever watch super heavyweight boxing. The other weight categories I mean why do they even bother? They just aren't as strong so why anyone is slightly interested is beyond me. So unskilled.

Etc etc

I don't know if the Scots have a name. Both the men's and women's NI teams appear to be called the Green and White army. A pity the women can't make a small adjustment and add purple!

That would be perfect!

#MoreRibbon

The sadder fact is that people really want to believe that. Internalised misogyny.

I've watched, and graded, many male and female sporting performances. With every year that there is grassroots and school input the girls game gets better and better. It is already often more technical, regardless of sport, and is getting faster as the girls get to play and train in the same ways as their male peers do.

There will always be a difference in speed and strength, but stamina and skills help balance that - oh, and often a more coherent team ethic too!

I work with hardcore men. In a male dominated field. The football loving aficionados with old- enough girl children take them to womens matches. They buy season tickets.

The times, they are a changing

@nettie434

The point SimonJT makes about money is so important. Even if we do accept the argument about skill (which I don't obviously), men's teams have access to elite coaching teams who can give much more 1:1 training. Manchester City and Chelsea invest heavily in their women's teams and they are very well regarded. Casey Stoney was doing incredible things with Man United women but she left after becoming disillusioned with the infrastructure to support the team - eg they play on a terrible pitch (they have only played at Old Trafford once) and changing facilities are virtually non existent.

A lot of Man U lady players got injured due to playing on a poor quality pitch.

Women’s football involves a lot less dramatic falls…

There’s a big push in cricket at the moment to increase women and girls teams. All playing soft ball though. And locally (if not nationally) is billed as Prosecco cricket and pink tops everywhere. I’ve raised this (not so subtly) with the local cricket people. None of that at my local club thankfully.

A lot of Man U lady players got injured due to playing on a poor quality pitch.

That's awful, standrewsschool. I do remember some players like Tobin Heath being out for a while but I did not follow the team enough to realise that the pitch was contributing to injuries.

Women's football was banned by the FA for decades, no wonder it's behind the men's game. It's catching up. I don't get why people think it's shit - I've seen some women's games that have been far more fun to watch than some of the men's games I've been to.

I liked how Pep Guardiola responded when congratulated on winning the domestic treble - he pointed out that Arsenal Women did it first.

Thanks for all the links, I've just learnt a lot sat in bed on a Sunday morning!

@TheDrsDocMartens I watched a women's cricket match when in Chester a few weeks ago, stumbled across by accident when on a Sunday afternoon walk. I have never seen a better standard of fielding in a men's game as I saw that afternoon.

There was a cracking catch on twitter the other day twitter.com/wisdencricket/status/1413576062991323137?s=21

I was pleased to see on the prev match chat a female player who said very clearly

When I played on the England team at the Euro 2009 final against Germany...

You didn't find it going to penalties exciting?

I assume you like football as you're on this thread...

Don't take this the wrong way but you may be depressed. finding that boring? Think about seeing the doc.

I'm sure everyone else on the thread would agree that you don't have to live like that and you can get better. Xx

@Samedaysameshit

Yawn

Thank you for that insightful contribution.