"England were last in the finals in 1966"

[selflove]

No. England last made the finals in 1984 & 2009.

It's just the men's team that hasn't made it since 1966.

The BBC have definitely upped their game on this the last few years, the headline this morning did specify the men's team and 5Live, which I listen to most days generally refers to men's cricket team or whatever. They also read out headlines about female players without necessarily saying women's or ladies team IYSWIM, eg Name Surname has signed for Chelsea from Arsenal.

@RozHuntleysLeftHand

Not boasting by the way shit just realised how that might have come across!!

But please do look up the history of women's football, it's fascinating and goes back a lot further than you think.

you shouldn't apologise for boasting. men wouldn't!😉

boast away!

btw I didn't read it as boasting Roz, only a list of stuff you've done & achieved.

"even if hypothetically the teams would be utterly mowed over had they played an entirely different team from a different league. "

But this wasn't a premier league team playing against a lower-down league, this was the USA women's national team who lost 5-2 to a non-professional U15 boy's team.

www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/

Manchester United women's team also lost 9-0 to an amateur boy's team:

www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/6881715/manchester-united-women-beaten-9-0-by-salford-youth-team-triggers-vile-sexist-abuse-on-twitter/

@selflove

No. England last made the finals in 1984 & 2009.

It's just the men's team that hasn't made it since 1966.

Whichever TV side it was on last night did say 'first men's team' so some media are mentioning it is the men's football, so thereby acknowledging the women's team.

Ah well, clear evidence of the necessity of dividing sports by sex.

Pep Guardiola in a press conference was asked how it felt to be the first team to win the treble, he said "we weren't the first team the women's team was"

Was pleased to receive a text from my daughter’s school to say the children can come in wearing red and white clothes tomorrow to support “the England men’s football team” in the final on Sunday. Glad to see the distinction. Also my daughter had weetabix for breakfast this morning and there are both men and women England footballers on the weetabix box.

@RozHuntleysLeftHand

I just came to see if anyone had noticed this!

I fucking love football, I played for my county girls team and got scouted for a Premier league teams under 14 squad many years ago, and am massively invested in women's football and go to matches whenever I can.

It really, really pisses me off that women's achievements in this sport are so fucking dismissed, especially because at one point in the not too distant past women's football was fucking huge.

It drew crowds of 60,000, made shit loads of money for charity, and google Lily Parr, who played in 1917 and was the first woman inducted into the Football Hall of Fame.

When football was a whole village affair, women played too, we had our own games right up until the 50s.

Women's football was hugely popular but then got fucking snatched away from us for years because the men wanted it.

(sorry to go off on a tangent, but this subject is very close to my heart and it really fucks me off that the history of women's football has been bloody obliterated in less than 70 years!)

But anyway, yeah, the women's teams have reached more finals than the men's, and it needs calling out.

Next year is the women's euros and I look forward to it!

(Also I wish people would stop assuming that only men really enjoy footy, I've seen it a few times on threads today and it makes me uncomfortable, it's just not fucking true!)

Thank you for reminding me of this. I taught my girl guides a couple of years ago about the history of the women's football league (I'm a huge fan, and we had a number of girls who played or loved to watch). I think once men came back from the WWI, the FA basically banned women from playing, forbidding them to use their grounds and stating that it was an "unsuitable" game for women.

Women also had their own women only/ women run International Olympic Games movement, holding (I think) 4 Games over the 1920s and 30s. The IOC quashed that (with a mixture of threats about the use of the name, and false promises of inclusion) and the women's Olympics got shoved into the main Olympic Games after WWII, but with a much reduced programme of events.

I'm also remembering the women's baseball league in the US, as portrayed in A League of Their Own. Quashed once again by men.

Men really have done a number on women's sport. And continue to do so, whilst supported by women.

whilst supported by *some women

@Golden2021

Yes I was going to say on BBC radio 1 it has said men's football every time.

And on Absolute radio, I was so pleased.

@selflove

Do you remember that press conference where a journalist asked Andy Murray how he felt to be the first player to do X Y X? And replied "first MALE player", knowing it was an achievement Serena/Venus had already done? Why can't a footballer just make the same correction one day when interviewed, it would be epic.

All we can do is teach our kids, I suppose. DS is 5 and corrected his teacher yesterday when she said it last happened probably when their grandparents were children. The teacher googled it, and corrected herself. So that's 30 kids who now know how epic our women's team also is. We just have to keep up with the tiny ripples

The best bit about the clip of Andy Murray correcting the reporter is that Andy doesn’t smile as/after he says it

A woman probably would have, with the intent of making the reporter feel less uncomfortable/embarrassed, i.e. made a bit of a joke about it (as the reporter tried to do).

Not Andy. It’s glorious.

The Mikron Theatre Company are doing a play about women's football in the 1920s as part of their tour this year.

www.mikron.org.uk/shows/atalanta-forever

They tour in pubs, small venues.

I've noticed that news reports are getting better at referring to the men's and women's teams, not just assuming the men's team is the default but they definitely need reminding until it happens automatically.

It's not just the women's team. The under 17 boys won the Under 17 World Cup in 2017. Jadon Sancho and Phil Foden were in that squad. That is my gift to anyone who didn't know this already. If anyone says 'none of the England men's team know what it's like to be in the final of a major tournament players', then just point out that Sancho and Foden do.

Also on the subject of Andy Murray's superb ripostes, he called out John McEnroe earlier this week when John McEnroe commented on Emma Raducanu's exit from Wimbledon.

Never apologise for your achievements, RozHuntleysLeftHand!

[quote MargaritaPie]"even if hypothetically the teams would be utterly mowed over had they played an entirely different team from a different league. "

But this wasn't a premier league team playing against a lower-down league, this was the USA women's national team who lost 5-2 to a non-professional U15 boy's team.

www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/

Manchester United women's team also lost 9-0 to an amateur boy's team:

www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/6881715/manchester-united-women-beaten-9-0-by-salford-youth-team-triggers-vile-sexist-abuse-on-twitter/[/quote]
As an exercise physiologist I can easily explain that to you. It begins with speed and ends in strength. What you are referring to are simply very visible examples of males being stronger and faster than females, an advantage that starts before puberty.

The skills gap has been narrowing for years, since schools kindly allowed girls to play football in line with FA guidelines. Grassroots football, and rugby, have been brilliant at promoting the female game for decades.

If you want some more detailed explanation, maybe some detailed physiology, biomechanics, I am not the only poster here who could help you better understand what it is you are currently misunderstanding.

Just ask! 😊

The best bit about the clip of Andy Murray correcting the reporter is that Andy doesn’t smile as/after he says it

A woman probably would have, with the intent of making the reporter feel less uncomfortable/embarrassed, i.e. made a bit of a joke about it (as the reporter tried to do).

Not Andy. It’s glorious.

Andy is consistently good in this area.

I only learned about the full history of football (Women's) in the past two years.

And that was due to reading MN FWR threads.

Thanks for the link newnortherner111.

CuriousaboutSamphire

Thanks for this thread - more encouragement to me to talk to my DD about women's football (it's a sport she enjoys playing).

I did read up on the 2009 Euros, and note that just like the men this week, England won their semi-final 2-1. Unfortunately, they lost the final 6-2 (to Germany) .

Unfortunately, they lost the final 6-2 (to Germany)

6-2 sounds like an exciting match!

I think someone has had a word with the BBC. On the tv news last night, the presenter mentioned ‘first final since... ‘ then repeated herself saying ‘first men’s final...’. And today on Radio 2 news earlier, they clearly stated ‘Mens football’, not just ‘..football’.

Good.

@littletinyboxes

I was thinking about this last night as I drove along pretty much deserted roads at 8.15pm. Work and social activities that I am involved in have been altered to fit around this competition, pubs have been given a special extension to their hours for Sunday due to it, the general expectation is that everyone will be watching and will care.

I have no real interest in football but even I am aware that the nation does not stop when the women's team (who I understand are pretty bloody good) are playing. I'm not sure I've even heard it mentioned on the news when they have won. I'm not sure I buy the comment made by a pp about women's football being lower quality and less entertaining that men's.

There was plenty of hype over the women's World Cup the other year and England did well in it. Obviously not to the same degree as male fans just aren't as enthused by it, as they have their loyalty to their men's team they've always supported (club and country).

The Euros will be big next year in England.

Go Lionesses.

What are the Welsh/Scottish and NI Women's teams called?

(For shame on me)