Can’t believe this is legal ** TW sexual assault

[RestingPandaFace]

news.sky.com/story/treated-worse-than-an-animal-women-and-girls-subjected-to-virginity-testing-at-unprecedented-rates-12347173

I can’t believe that this is legal in the UK.

It can't be legal in the case described first in the article. Although she signed the consent form in the presence of her father she clearly then told the doctor she didn't want him to continue. As an adult she is able to withdraw consent, and he should have stopped. The fact he told her he had to carry on and then did the invasive procedure means he assaulted her. He should be reported to the relevant professional body and to the police.

In my anger I didn't read far enough... she did report it to the police who told her no law was broken! They were and are wrong. If a doctor continues an internal exam when the person has withdrawn consent then that is an assault. It beggars belief that the police didn't take it any further.

I found it rather upsetting. Definitely assault. And he was paid for it. But also the part where women are thinking there is a need to have repair surgery means there is something deeply wrong.

Fucking hell

There are some really shitty parents out there!

And shitty doctors, and shitty police forces.

This is so awful. Who would even be proud to offer these tests? It sounds horrific!

Wasn't there a celebrity of some sort who came under fire for the same sort of thing? I think he was American and had a gross attitude to his daughters virginity/sex life.

Anyway, it goes without saying that this is disgusting. I wonder what the gmc make of it if the police will do nothing?

Which police force is it that doesn't understand the law? The girl made clear she didn't want her vagina to be penetrated, but the Dr did so anyway.

Mind you, with rape convictions being what they are, there's pretty much a licence to rape in this country and no doubt the police force see it as just part of that.

The doctors need arresting.

They are performing highly invasive procedures for no medical reason.

Horrific

That's horrific. And yes they should be banned. How are there even drs who do this. They are scam artists. Being drs they know that tampons and physical activities can break the hymen. So why are they taking the money if not just ti rip off the clients dads.

That's nothing more than sexual assult. Why are men so obsessed with virginity anyway?.are they worried that if a woman has had sex they have something to compare them to? Are they worried they won't measure up to the ex? What consenting adults do is up to them. Stop using this shit to justify abusing women and girls

A lot of women who come to me have issues with their families in terms of where they have to be virgins when they get married, their bedsheets have to have stains."

This is just horrific

@AssassinatedBeauty

It can't be legal in the case described first in the article. Although she signed the consent form in the presence of her father she clearly then told the doctor she didn't want him to continue. As an adult she is able to withdraw consent, and he should have stopped. The fact he told her he had to carry on and then did the invasive procedure means he assaulted her. He should be reported to the relevant professional body and to the police.

Absolutely. A patient can withdraw consent for treatment at any point during the process. Colonoscopies for example can be stopped at any point.

I am absolutely outraged by this. How can it not be illegal!

Tell you what, if it's so hard for men to see that a woman doesn't want to consent, and it's so hard for the police to understand that unwanted fingers in the vagina is sexual assault - albeit one that's been commissioned by the family of the victim - then let's start off by requiring the process to be a male free zone - so the dad can't come in, the would-be father-in-law can't come in, nor can the husband to be or any brothers or uncles or cousins. And the person who asks if you're okay with this examination is a woman and the person who performs the (ridiculous and potentially traumatising) examination is a woman, and it is explained to the examinee that she can stop it at any time by raising her hands. I wonder how many would actually go ahead without all that coercion and control?

I mean, for God's sake!

I can’t stop thinking about how horrific this is. Not just the examination, but the fact that some girls whose hymen has been broken go on to have surgery to restore it so that it can be broken again. Surely that is unethical.

It's hard to understand how this way of thinking may be still the norm for some.

@AssassinatedBeauty

In my anger I didn't read far enough... she did report it to the police who told her no law was broken! They were and are wrong. If a doctor continues an internal exam when the person has withdrawn consent then that is an assault. It beggars belief that the police didn't take it any further.

Sadly how I read it is that she didn’t actually withdraw consent. She begged the doctor to lie to her dad and the doctor said he couldn’t. So maybe she was too scared of disobeying her dad to actually withdraw consent and went ahead even though she was obviously unhappy.

So probably not legally assault but a massive ethical issue and one I think where the dr needs to be reported to the gmc. As a midwife if I thought someone was being coerced into doing something i wouldn’t do it…..I’d lie to the father if necessary to protect her in the short term and then be looking at it from a safeguarding point of view. Did the woman want help/need help.

I'm no expert! But surely invasive medical procedures can only be carried out if there is a medical indication to do so.

There is no medical indication for this. Additionally it seems clear that some of the girls have expressed disquiet, said they don't want it etc.

Doesn't this go against GMC code of practice or something?

Are they doing anything about this?

Or are these docs who are not on the UK register?

This is what the woman is quoted as saying in the article:

"I told him I don't want to do it, can he lie to the family and say he had carried out the test? He said no, he can't do that because he has been paid," she said.
"He asked me to sit on the couch and put my legs up. It was a two finger test and obviously I was a virgin. I was traumatised. It felt like you were not human anymore.
"You wouldn't treat an animal like that. He could see I was terrified. I was tearful, crying - I was pleading with him.""

That first sentence - "I told him I don't want to do it". That's withdrawn consent right there. No decent competent doctor would continue after that sentence was uttered. The fact that her father had paid is utterly irrelevant.

But quite possible she says she doesn’t want it done, asks if he will lie. Dr says he won’t lie so she then says ok (obviously under serious duress) I will have to have it done or my father will kill me/hurt me/scared of the consequences. I totally agree the dr shouldn’t have continued but also think he could argue she legally gave consent….ethically I don’t think she did. Consent needs to be freely given…but don’t think the police will bother with that nuanced aspect of it?

Of course the police should. Coerced "consent" isn't any kind of consent at all. The doctor would have been aware that her father was coercing her and he didn't care. His first care should be the woman in front of him, not the man paying him. The police and this doctor have been beyond shitty in their response to this woman's situation.

I'm no expert! But surely invasive medical procedures can only be carried out if there is a medical indication to do so.

Not true unfortunately. Cosmetic surgery is an invasive medical procedure without medical indications or need.

THIS however is altogether different & abhorent. It needs to be stopped. It's archaic, misogynistic and assault.

The GMC can only investigate if it's brought to their attention and the doctors are registered with them. Which they have to be if they practice in the U.K. Let's hope Sky has contacted them & will share the details of who these evil doctors are.

With plastic surgery it can be argued it's for psychological reasons though?

I totally take your point but this is very different I think.

Google tells me that 'hymen repair surgery' is legal in the UK.

Well I'm surprised and shocked. But there you have it.

@NiceGerbil - it's totally different, I agree. It's horrific. How many of these girls actually want either the examination or the surgery? Have sought it out themselves? None, I bet. That's why it differs to plastic surgery and should be illegal.