Free Britney

[TRHR]

Britney's testimony yesterday is harrowing. The lack of bodily autonomy, lack of control over money she earns, forced work, drugging, mandatory contraception. It's medieval. Can't help thinking that men wouldn't be subjected to this (although maybe that's my ignorance). I know conservatorships are a US thing, but is there anything similar in the UK? Is there a possibility that women here are under similar legal measures and no one is talking about it?

[NiceGerbil]

And finally on that post

About Amy Winehouse.

You said that I said 'dunno' and you don't know what that means but it doesn't sound complimentary.

What I said was.

'Incidentally I am from the area Amy grew up in. I know people who knew her. She's not a, dunno. Concept to me.

Lady di, BS and Amy. And the woman you mentioned I've never heard of. Why are you drawing direct equivalences?

They are in different countries, different ages, different upbringings, different challenges, different personalities, different educations, different upbringings, different different different.

Women are people. In all the complexity people have.'

[NiceGerbil]

If you're at the point where you're picking a word out of a long piece and using it to imply that I was insulting a dead woman who I have/ had mutual friends with...

Then you're not engaging in good faith/ or whatever it is you're doing.

[moonbedazzled]

You can't have it both ways, that she can mean some testimony but not other bits. She's not come to court unprepared. So if she said she thinks her father should be in jail, why would you not believe her? But that aside, if he has abused her to the degree she claims, I, not Britney, think he deserves to be punished.

Secondly, she wanted her statement to be made in public before the press. She could have had the press excluded but she didn't want that. She wanted there to be no cover ups about what she was alleging happened. No one wants to be in her situation but I'm thinking that she's feeling a lot better than she did before. Good for her.

I said routine is good for people with mental health problems. When I talked about her routine, that was her routine from being a child. So I meant that that was the only way of living she knew. TV, performing, interviewing, recording. But from everything other performers say, it's an exhausting way to live. And I said, more than once, to be forced to work as hard as she did against your will is abuse. I've been quite clear about that so please don't try to mix up my words.

I stand by that last quote. Everyone sees things through their own prism. It doesn't make her feelings any less valid, but it doesn't mean that what she's saying is 100% correct. Hence you don't believe her when she say she doesn't want her father to go to prison.

[NiceGerbil]

You definitely haven't listened to what she said.

Why not?

It's kind of central to the whole thread!

'So if she said she thinks her father should be in jail'

Did she say that? I don't remember her saying that. Are you sure?

'Secondly, she wanted her statement to be made in public before the press. She could have had the press excluded but she didn't want that'

Nope. That's not what happened. At all. Where did you get that from?

'It doesn't make her feelings any less valid, but it doesn't mean that what she's saying is 100% correct. Hence you don't believe her when she say she doesn't want her father to go to prison.'

Her feelings eh? Not just speaking the truth. That's been a theme with your posts.

And now you're saying she doesn't want her father to go to prison. Which is it?

Why don't you listen to what she has said? I don't get it.

[moonbedazzled]

Sorry, when you said 'a dunno concept' I thought that was some sort of term with a meaning and that you were accusing me of something. But as I didn't know what it meant, I couldn't answer it. So I tried to explain that I was not denigrating her in any way. I don't have an agenda, I was just saying that I thought Amy Winehouse was a real talent, messed up by drugs and she came to a sad end and I feel huge sympathy for her family.

I only named names to give specific examples to convey what I was saying. That the victims were women is not that surprising, is it? They're the cases that I would be most interested in.

I don't why you would think I'm not engaging in good faith. I haven't been rude or aggressive. I haven't been accusatory or insulting or anything. I've tried to explain my position honestly and I think I've been fair. I've certainly tried to be. And you might not have enjoyed chatting to me, I'm sure I have been frustrating to you, but I've enjoyed listening to your opinions and thoughts and it's made me clarify lines of my own thoughts. So thank you.

I'm interested to see the outcome of the hearing (you're quite right, trial is the wrong word) and again I wish only the best for Britney.

[NiceGerbil]

Have you listened to what she said?

I think no.

So... Not sure what you've got out of this but it's been interesting for me as well. Very interesting tbh.

[moonbedazzled]

Oh you've posted. You're much quicker than me. I'm too long-winded, I know.

Here's the quote about JS....

“My dad and anyone involved in this conservatorship, including my management … they should be in jail,” she said in a statement to Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Brenda Penny on Wednesday.

No, I said she wanted her father to go to prison. You said in the cold light of day she wouldn't want her father to go to prison.

At the beginning of the hearing the counsel for the conservatorship asked for the court to be closed when BS made her statement but she insisted that her statement be made in open court. Quote.....

When an attorney representing her co-conservator said the hearing and transcript should be kept sealed if private medical information was to be revealed, the star shouted to say her words should be made public.

I have been quite clear that I believe that she is telling the truth from her persepective.

[MrsPelligrinoPetrichor]

I don't know. I think people with serious mental illness can be sectioned and treated against their will, which is similar but maybe more time bound.
I know a couple of people with severe BPD and they definitely aren't capable of making safe decisions at times. So some of the stuff Britney is saying about being forced to take Lithium could be to do with refusing necessary treatment, which can be common. Then some treatments are toxic to foetuses so it might be that which means she's on contraception, not about preventing her having a baby.
I feel so sorry for her but also her family as these illnesses are cruel

I agree.

Having a family member with severe BPD I'm seeing it from the angle of the family. I'm not sure some people realise just how ill you can be. I'm sure people who don't know the situation look at my family member and think they need to be 'freed' too but they'd be dead in a week. It's sad for everyone concerned.

With regards to her working ,I wouldn't be surprised if she had to so treatment could be paid for. No NHS and medical care is tens of thousands and her condition is on going. It's not right,I'm not saying that for a minute.

[moonbedazzled]

@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor I don't know if the conservatorship is the right thing for her anymore because I haven't heard evidence from the conservators, but I have just tried to explain that when it was set up, it probably saved her life. Conservatorships are set up and overseen by the courts. I just think there needs to be more perspective on the case than just #freebritney.

[NiceGerbil]

Her dad said in response he loved her and missed her.

He is controlling her life at a distance. Why isn't he seeing her? She can't say no can she.

All the time these assumptions to justify it all.

If she's severely mentally ill then the Vegas fixtures and world tour seem a bit strange surely.

If she's so ill she has to be under house arrest for 13 years, not allowed access to money, every day timetabled, no choice in seeing whoever etc. Then how does that fit with those highly lucrative, stressful, long lasting performance schedules/ commitments?

Why are so many women so accepting that it must be for her own good. To have her freedom removed from age 26 to 39. That there must be good reasons. That it's reasonable to not allow her to marry or have a baby because... Well there must be good reasons!

Why can't she marry?
But she can tour?

Why this utter determination to believe it's all good.

Is it too much to think it might not be?

Is it too much to think that she's being treated like this because it's very very very lucrative for a lot of people?

[NiceGerbil]

I thought you were off moon?

Any response as to why you have said things at odds with her testimony?

You still haven't answered if you've listened to her speak.

[moonbedazzled]

Ooo, you're right. I need to be off but I was so happy that someone said something just a little bit supportive of what I was saying, that I just couldn't resist. Haha. Mumsnet is addictive.

I haven't listened to her 24min statement, no. But I did know that she had asked to speak in an open court and that her dad should be in jail, when you who'd listened didn't, so maybe what I read gave me a good gist. Sorry, was that rude? Didn't mean to be.

I stand by that the conservatorship was set up by the court for her protection and it probably saved her life. What happened over the years, we only have her words. I've have written a lot but really that sums up all I've said.

You said it was interesting talking to me, I hope you meant it in a good way because I have really have found it interesting. I haven't really been posting very long so this is the first real conversation I have had with someone. I hope I have been respectful and thanks for your time. I'm just depressed how much I know about Britney Spears affairs - pre 2021 obvs!

[NumberTheory]

Britney did say she thought her father, along with others involved in the conservatorship, should be in jail. It was to do with her belief that they manipulated her therapist to put her on lithium after she said no to doing a concert in Vegas.

[NiceGerbil]

'I stand by that the conservatorship was set up by the court for her protection and it probably saved her life. What happened over the years, we only have her words. I've have written a lot but really that sums up all I've said.'

Why haven't you listened? You've been on here way longer than 20 mins! Hearing what she says and how she says it gives more of a feel for it all.

I would urge you to listen to her. You've been posting about her and putting thought into your posts etc why not take that 20 mins to hear what you have been commenting on?

'we only have her words'

And that's the reason women all over the world don't get justice for all sorts of things.

We are not seen as reliable witnesses. And that is a feminist issue.

It has been interesting. As much as you see bias in what I say (and my only point really is none of us know so why the assumption that everything that's happened for the last 13 years is reasonable) I see bias in what you say.

Ask yourself why you haven't listened to her words.

And why her words are 'only'.

Have a good night :)

[QuentinBunbury]

Why are so many women so accepting that it must be for her own good. To have her freedom removed from age 26 to 39. That there must be good reasons. That it's reasonable to not allow her to marry or have a baby because... Well there must be good reasons!
I think that because I have female friends with BPD, who hold down jobs while on heavy duty medical treatment that they can't get pregnant on, but who have come off treatment and spiralled into very damaging episodes. I'm not going into details as it's private and potentially outing to them, but it's very very serious and I worry for one of my friends every day that she won't be with me as a result of this illness.

[QuentinBunbury]

Bluntly....is it better forBPD sufferers to have full autonomy and potentially kill themselves and others at the height of a manic episode, or better for them to be treated against their will and not die?

[QuentinBunbury]

It's a cyclical illness so someone being able to work doesn't indicate whether or not they have a serious problem

[ProudExclu]

Those of us who’ve been brainwashed and used in a similar manner with less money and titles found this particularly hard.

I know for me hearing her testimony triggered my own memories, some I thought buried.

I don’t know Britney mental state. But if anyone’s going to be in charge of her affairs it shouldn’t be people with a financial interest. Nor should they be paid 4x monthly what the person earning said money is allowed to spend. Jamie is clearly an abuser just by that fact.