Check in with the Sex and Gender forum too

[JoodyBlue]

I was just following the Jess de Wahls thread. I am fairly sure I picked it up from Feminism Chat this morning. Just noticed that it fell under a new header called "Sex and Gender". So the split has happened. I am not sure I would have noticed though, if I hadn't been following an active thread. Make sure you check out the Sex and Gender forum too.

Thank you for the heads up.

What a load of shit! Why on earth should that thread be shunted to the MN S-old out-ex and G-ave in to the trans lobby-ender board? It isn't just about sex and gender. It is about the double standards applied to women - she's a female artist with views some people don't agree with and has been "cancelled" yet the Royal Academy still has the works of many men of dubious morals adorning its walls.

Agreed that there is a whole sexism element there. How women are held to a higher standard than men.

They aren't even connected under Feminism subheading.

Appear to be two competely unrelated forums at the moment.

Why would MN do this without explaining their plan and how it will work, in advance?

I'm not sure, maybe someone will come on and explain.

There have in fact been loads of discussion about this after someone picked up on this plan mentioned elsewhere on mumsnet.

But as yet no one from @MNHQ has had the decency to explain directly how they think feminism isn't about sex and gender.

And in fact on the newly emptied feminism chat board there are no longer any guidelines on what you can and cant say so more reason to stay on feminism chat.

Because unless MNHQ have a whole new theory of feminism it is always about sex and gender.

And it all seems to have started because some said coming on FWR was too alienating for them to even take part in threads that weren't even directly about trans rights vs women's rights.

So a few email from a minority who dont even post here regularly have been given priority over everyone else.

I suspect Pink News and Stonewall will be thrilled and asking to take out ad space on the new broom Feminist Chat

The Sex and Gender Debate topic is here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights

Interesting it's actually the old Women's Rights section! That's from before it got renamed Feminism Chat, isn't it? How many times will it get renamed I wonder?

Best thing we could do is ignore the new section (which was the old section) and just post in feminism chat. If it doesn’t get used it won’t stay 🤷‍♀️

@BigBWatching

Best thing we could do is ignore the new section (which was the old section) and just post in feminism chat. If it doesn’t get used it won’t stay 🤷‍♀️

But if any thread that mentions sex and/or gender gets bounced to Sex & gender debate, then that’s where all the interesting discussion will be happening.

I started thinking I might deliberately try to shoehorn sex/gender into all the threads here, Feminism Chat in case it gets bounced across.

I expected to find it a bit of a chore, but instead I have found myself laughing and not posting at all because EVERY thread so far leads quite naturally to a comment about single sex provision of a facility.

I feel very sorry for the Mods. This is going to be exhausting.

This is ridiculous. It comes to something when you need detailed instructions on how to post and access a public social media platform. Most social media are aiming for seamless, easy access not frustrating and irritating their core users.

Was close to subscribing but not a chance now.

This is a poor decision to separate the topic and MNHQ were told this multiple times by multiple people. They don't care.

@TidyDancer

This is a poor decision to separate the topic and MNHQ were told this multiple times by multiple people. They don't care.

Is it arrogance? Naivety? Disdain?

Maybe they struggle to believe that many of us have loads more experience in relevant fields than them and are giving many thousands of quids worth of good advice for free.

Is it arrogance? Naivety? Disdain?

It's misogyny

We could do with a link at the top so you can switch between the two.

MNHQ are going to be flat out trying to decide what goes where, it will be exhausting! I'm also intrigued to know which feminist topics can possibly not relate to sex and gender.

And it all seems to have started because some said coming on FWR was too alienating for them to even take part in threads that weren't even directly about trans rights vs women's rights.

Hmm do we think the board would have been split if MF had lost her case?
MNHQ were spammed by TRA's, another attempt to shut us up. You'd think they'd be quite happy for us to chat about the issues with self ID it if they really didn't think it erroded women's rights. They know the truth and want to silence us before even more women find out.

Anyone complaining the feminist board didn't contain threads they were interested in could have started their own but instead they wanted us moved. Wonder how many will be contributing on feminist chat? The TRA's will still monitor the FWR board (I refuse to use it's rediculous and insulting new name) probably more than ever. Slow hand clap MNHQ if you were hoping to easing the burden of modding.

So is Feminism Chat now only for LibFem goodthink?

It's so weird that MF won her case showing that her belief - and the belief of many women on here - is protected and the response of MN is to banish us all. It's like they're punishing us - for what? Expecting them to look at their rules again in light of that ruling?

No-one except MN wanted this division. It just doesn't make sense.

It's like a deliberate punishment for uppity women. Can anyone think of another reason for it when the users have overwhelmingly said they don't want it?

Maybe they have been offered a lucrative advertising deal so long as they can show that there is a forum where women and well behaved and not at all shouty and women losing their sex based rights.

I'm hoping that they went ahead knowing it wouldn't work, and would so obviously be unmanageable that they'll merge the boards back under the old url with womens_rights and call it Feminism and Women's Rights. They should never have split that up in the first place.

I know there weren't many posts in the other Feminist sections which seem to have disappeared from view (support, activism, books and theory iirc).... have those been nuked or are they still readable somewhere?

No-one except MN wanted this division. It just doesn't make sense.

I am putting my tin hat on to write this but maybe the split will result in a broader coverage of topics that affect women. A few months ago I started a thread about the women protesting in Belarus. Their weekly marches in which they wore white and carried flowers attracted international attention. They played a huge role in increasing awareness of the anti democratic nature of the government outside Belarus.

There was not one comment on the thread. I do understand that some threads attract more interest than others and I am not having a 'loook at meeeee' moment. I just felt very sad that it seemed as if women's protests in another country could not seem to get any attention on Feminism Chat. There are analogies with the Leeds Spinners or women putting stickers and ribbons on statues and trees etc. Or even the 'hate crime' threats against women for protesting but even those similarities didn't help make the topic visible. I hope that the split will lead to more people visiting both boards.

Here's a link to the "sex and gender" section:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights

@nettie434

No-one except MN wanted this division. It just doesn't make sense.

I am putting my tin hat on to write this but maybe the split will result in a broader coverage of topics that affect women. A few months ago I started a thread about the women protesting in Belarus. Their weekly marches in which they wore white and carried flowers attracted international attention. They played a huge role in increasing awareness of the anti democratic nature of the government outside Belarus.

There was not one comment on the thread. I do understand that some threads attract more interest than others and I am not having a 'loook at meeeee' moment. I just felt very sad that it seemed as if women's protests in another country could not seem to get any attention on Feminism Chat. There are analogies with the Leeds Spinners or women putting stickers and ribbons on statues and trees etc. Or even the 'hate crime' threats against women for protesting but even those similarities didn't help make the topic visible. I hope that the split will lead to more people visiting both boards.

I agree. I think it's going to take a while to build up and there's a lot of antagonism right now but I'm optimistic.