51% of women have been sexually assaulted by a partner in their sleep

[SapphosRock]

*trigger warning - sexual assault

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This is horrifying:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jun/15/the-sexual-assault-of-sleeping-women-the-hidden-horrifying-crisis-in-britains-bedrooms

If 51% of women in relationship have effectively been raped by their partners it suggests 49% of men in relationships are rapists.

How on earth is this happening in a civilised society?

I saw that piece yesterday - absolutely shocking. It's disturbed me since I read it - sorry I don't have anything constructive to say, I'm really struggling to process what I read.

That proportion seems very high, but the report noted that respondents were self selected so there may be a response bias. Or we may live in an even worse world than I thought.

Terrible...and it’s a survey of 22,000 women. So that’s a large sample size. However, it asked “have you ever”. So the number is over lifetime and all partners. It’s not counting the number of women currently with partners who do that.

It has certainly happened to me with 2 different perpetrators.

I hope it isn't as commonplace as 1 woman in 2, but honestly I think this is a violation that many women do not categorise as rape.
However many women have experienced it, it is awful and a very difficult thing to seek justice for.

It doesn't say that though - it says 50% of respondents to the self-selected survey which was widely shared online [probably in particular groups for women who'd been assaulted, because people want their experience to be heard and documented so are motivated to fill in the survey] , had experienced this.

You simply cannot extrapolate from that to 50% of women generally. I work in health and social research and training constantly reminds us that this sort of survey proves nothing. What it does is shows us an area which needs proper research in future. But without randomised sampling, it is of limited use.

It's like sharing the results of a mumsnet AIBU poll and saying "75% of women say LTB".

Here's what the article said, for those who don't want to click through :
survey asked more than 22,000 women if, for example, they had ever been spat at, or strangled, kicked or bitten. It also asked respondents if they had ever woken to their male partner having sex with them or performing sex acts on them while they slept. To this question, 51% answered yes.

This was not randomised sampling – the survey was widely shared online and participants were self-selected. For this reason, it’s hard to extrapolate from the findings.

51%, sorry. Health and social research training also includes Read The Article Properly, honest.

@SuperLoudPoppingAction

It has certainly happened to me with 2 different perpetrators.

I hope it isn't as commonplace as 1 woman in 2, but honestly I think this is a violation that many women do not categorise as rape.
However many women have experienced it, it is awful and a very difficult thing to seek justice for.

I'm sorry

It has happened to me too but from a 'friend' rather than a partner. I still have to see him occasionally.

Yes this was a self-selecting survey so you can't say that this has happened to 51% of women.

BUT the reason this survey is so interesting is the wording used. An awful lot of women would not respond 'yes' to the question 'have you been raped while you slept'. But 11,000 women answered 'yes' to the question 'have you ever woken up to find someone having sex with you' (or similar, I haven't gone back to check the exact wording).

Taylor's point is that lots of sexual assault isn't called sexual assault by the women experiencing it. She wanted to see if calling things by different names would mean higher responses - and she was right. So while it may not be 51% of population, it's a frighteningly high response. And that's important.

I'm sorry that happened to you @SuperLoudPoppingAction

You're right to say honestly I think this is a violation that many women do not categorise as rape. - that's why the question was worded the way it was, because so many women wouldn't identify this particular kind of rape as a rape.

I believe that’s also true of men - if you ask a guy if he’s ever sexually assaulted a woman then he’ll say no, but frame it as ‘have you ever done something sexual to woman without her consent’ then the response shoots right up.

I was sexually assaulted by a friend after a party as a teenager, in front of a bunch of the perpetrators’ friends and someone took a picture (which is where I found out that this had happened). I can 100% guarantee that that guy would remember it as ‘mucking around drunk after a party’ rather than ‘sexual assault’.

I think this quote from one of the victims is very telling:

“At times, I still have thoughts that maybe I just made a big deal out of nothing – I still think that to this day,”

I can imagine a lot of women wouldn't even recognise it as rape or as a violation of their body if it was someone they loved and trusted.

Disgusting behaviour. Many years ago a friend jokingly told me how she always slept with pants and 2 pairs of PJ bottoms on, because her partner did this on a regular basis. The extra layers made it more likely she would wake and tell him to piss off. I remember being profoundly shocked at the time. She portrayed it as merely a nuisance she had to put up with. Still makes me fell sick, to this day.

I filled in the survey, it was certainly shared here and in my ptsd group. However self selecting or not, I'm sure we all agree it's too high a number even if it's 11 000 women (guarantee it's much higher though). Personally I've woken up twice with a man's hand between my legs. Neither were partners, it was just mixed sex sleeping arrangements.

I found it an interesting survey for making me think about all the little things I'd experienced not just the cause of my ptsd. It's amazing and horrifying how much I went comes across as white noise to me, things that upset me but I accepted the narrative of it being normal/ok when it really wasn't.

Yes agree that the wording used makes the study interesting.

'Have you been raped?' Is a very different question to 'Has your partner had sex or made sexual contact with you when you were asleep?'

I would be interested in how victim-blaming plays out, particularly from perpetrators.
I wonder whether women are perceived as being 'up for sex' because more flesh than usual is on display.

content that follows is me pondering perpetrator mindset

So something like 'you looked so sexy - how could I resist' that plays on rape myths about men not having self control.

For a while there was a lot of 'sexsomnia' as justification. I found that very difficult when I saw it in headlines. I havent seen it as much recently

Oh that's how you bold. Huh.
Was meant to be asterisks

It's happened to me to. My Stbex used to touch me and he also raped me while I was asleep. I would often wake up to him on top of me or touching me. I always slept with full pj's on. He used to say he was asleep and couldn't help it which I naively believed for a while until one day we had a massive argument and he went to the pub on his return I pretended to be asleep as I didn't want to talk to him and he started touching me. I knew then that he wasn't doing it in his sleep. I don't think I will ever be able to trust another man again.

The issue is we will never know the truth.
Short of installing cameras in bedrooms, how can we 100% know, not everyone will wake up/ feel something.

Iseeyoulookingatme

I'm sorry that is shocking.

Does anyone know if the 'cup of tea and consent' video is shown to boys at school? If not it should be from year 8 or 9 onwards

I think it’s impossible to extrapolate from the survey answers that all those women were “raped”.
The question is badly phrased, in that it doesn’t ask for context.
My own much loved late DH would often “perpetrate” this supposed offence during our first few years together, when we were late teens/early twenties.
He knew perfectly well that I adored him, that my consent was not in any doubt at all - my own libido was as high as his - and that in the unlikely event I ever asked him to stop, he would have without question.
He was a loving, caring, respectful husband and father, utterly supportive of my career, and did the bulk of all the domestic chores as I was a junior doctor.
It would be more appropriate to accuse me of “rape” rather than him, as I insisted on it 3 weeks after DD was born, when DH was afraid of hurting me and tried to refuse!
I am not belittling the experience of women with abusive husbands, for whom their experience definitely was rape, but you cannot assume that all the survey respondents were in that category.

if they had ever woken to their male partner having sex with them or performing sex acts on them while they slept.

True the question doesn’t exclude those who have given pre-consent to be woken up in this fashion.

I am now wishing they’d asked the same question of female partners. Because I would like to think this would happen less often in same sex relationships?

@SapphosRock

*trigger warning - sexual assault

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This is horrifying:

[[https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jun/15/the-sexual-assault-of-sleeping-women-the-hidden-horrifying-crisis-in-britains-bedrooms]]

If 51% of women in relationship have effectively been raped by their partners it suggests 49% of men in relationships are rapists.

How on earth is this happening in a civilised society?

I don’t think it does suggest 49% of men are rapists. If 4 women date the same 4 men and one of the men rapes all of his partners, then 25% of the men are rapists and 100% of the women have been raped.

Spiderplantsoutside yes that is very true, which makes the stats slightly less horrifying.

Babdoc I can't comment on your individual experience because it sounds like you gave blanket consent but you must see it is pretty impossible in most scenarios for sleeping women to consent to sex. Is it even sex if one party isn't awake? It's not a mutual experience and there is no benefit for the woman. It's just something being done to her for the man's gratification.

Terrible...and it’s a survey of 22,000 women. So that’s a large sample size. However, it asked “have you ever”. So the number is over lifetime and all partners. It’s not counting the number of women currently with partners who do that.

What the hell kind of response is that? Too many men do it and too many women are victims are my immediate thoughts on reading the article, not to look for ways that "it's not that bad".

Honestly. The minimising and rape apology on here makes me feel ill.