Need help with DP (LOTS of swearing, sorry)

[CardyMow]

DP has suffered from severe depression for over 20 years (since his Aunties death from cancer). We have been on and off in our relationship for 11 years (I love him dearly, but the stress of coping with my own epilepsy and 3 dc's, 2 of whom are SN, means that sometimes, I just can't cope with him on top). He has always steadfastly refused to take pills or talk to anyone (even me). His mother had MH problems when he was a young child as well, she was in and out of an inpatient ward for quite a bit of his childhood. Now he has always struggled with over-worrying about his health (i.e. he gets a cold and is convinced he is dying of cancer like his Auntie), but I've always been able to give him a rational explanation for his minor ailments and calm him down in the past.

Tonight was different. He was getting worked up over a small mouth ulcer, then the look in his eyes changed, and he was getting hysterical about it.

Quick bit of background - my own father had MH probs as well, was an LP to me, committed suicide when I was 10yo.

Now his 'faraway look' and hysterical-ness (not a real word, I know) Scared the fucking crap out of me. And I'm ashamed to admit it, but for the first time in 11 years of trying to help him cope with his problems, I totally lost my temper with him and started shouting at him to get with the fucking program it's only a fucking mouth ulcer you're not dying FFS just act like a fucking adult.

I'm getting concerned because my younger 2 DC's are picking up on how hysterical he gets with anything medical, and DS1 is moaning and groaning saying he's ill like my DP always is, and DS2 (DP's son) is actually pretending to choke on his food to get the attention he's craving from his dad. As it's the only time his dad seems to notice him.

I can't really explain in one post how OTT DP is with his hypochondria, suffice to say that he's been to the doctors 12 times this year for simple things that can be treated with paracetamol. Apparently his mother has always been the same, in fact it's mostly what her MH probs are, to the point where she has had (at least) 3 breakdowns due to worrying about her health. I think DP is about there.

I Can't fucking cope with this anymore. I have SO much else to cope with, I now feel like I'm about to crack. I only go out of the house to do the school run, the only people I speak to are on MN. Why won't DP pull himself the fuck together for the sake of our kids? I suffered from MH probs when I was younger, depression that I was sectioned for at 15 etc, but I haven't let myself fall too far without getting help since I had the DC's. If I need them I take the fucking AD's the GP prescribes. He gets the prescription and never takes any of them. It's like he doesn't WANT to get better.

I've just never seen him with the look he had in his eyes tonight, like he wasn't capable of processing rational thought. The only time I've ever seen that look in anyone elses eyes was my dad's the last time I saw him the day he killed himself. I'm so scared that DP is going to do the same as my dad did. I don't want my DC's to have to go through what I went through.

Sorry for long rambly post. If anyone can help me. Please.

Loudlass I didn't want your post to go unanswered as you sound at the end of your tether, but I am very far from an expert.

Does your DH have rational times where he can talk about the hypochondria or is he always, constantly anxious about his health?

If he does, could you use a quiet time with him where you say that his depression and severe anxiety about his health are driving the family apart and also affecting the children, and that you want him to actually seek treatment, proper treatment for this, otherwise you will have no choice but to take your children away from this incredibly destructive influence?

The really sad thing is that anxiety and depression can be treated with drugs and therapy (as I"m sure you know) and it must be heartbreaking to watch him deteriorate and know that it could be helped, if only he would allow it.

Hopefully someone will be along soon with actual help, but know that I am thinking of you.

Why would he want to get better? He has you to take care of him, a nice family around him.

I don't think your outburst was a bad thing at all. Some of this problem of his is a serious inability to count further than 1, it seems. There's no harm in telling it like it is. Why should he be the one who is insulated from reality at all costs?

Thinking of you too, and also of your H because this is probably no fun for him either, but your children need more and better than what they're getting from him.

xxxx

Are you seriously concerned he might hurt himself? I am not 100% sure about this, but you might be able to get him seen to regardless of his opinions if you really think he might be suicidally depressed.

It sounds bloody terrible, the situation you are living with; can you go to your GP and ask if they can help you in any way?

I know someone whose wife had terrible depressive episodes and some MH problems - he had her sectioned at one point for her own safety (although admittedly she has never quite forgiven him for it).

Not sure I am helping here but I think there might be ways to force him to have treatment that he clearly desperately needs. I have very little patience with people like your DH who refuse to help themselves, even when it is part of their MH problem (I know a manic depressive who takes himself off the lithium when he starts to feel better because "he doesn't need it any more" ) and I am impressed that you have dealt with it as long as you have by yourself. Please try the GP as a first point of call and see what help might be available to you.

Thing is, he's registered at a different surgery to me, my GP won't talk to me about DP's problems, and DP's doctor won't see me. And DP refuses to join the same surgery as me due to me trying to make him get some help about 5 years ago....And tbh, the fact that he won't help himself has been most of the reason we have kept splitting up, I get back with him when he's going through a 'good' patch (thinking he's sorted himself out) then he can't cope with the reality of our situation (It IS quite stressful) and gets really bad again. ATM, he doesn't seem to have any time where he can be rational about his anxieties. I feel like I'm losing HIM IYKWIM.

I DO know that part of 'his inability to count past one' is to do with the fact that he is asd (he was dxd at 13yo, but I didn't find out until we'd been together for 5 years, by which time I was pg with his son). I try to make allowances for that, but when he 'loses touch' like this, I find I can't cope.

I know I'm starting to get depressed now, I'm getting a bit agoraphobic again, but I've got a GP appt. for myself this afternoon to get myself some AD's as I need them right now.

He has attempted suicide before, always when I've split up with him, luckily both times he was found passed out by one of our mutual friends who got him taken to hospital, but he's always made out at the hospital that it's been accidental overdoses, and they've believed him . When we have split up in the past, he does very irrational things like calling social services on me, making up something spurious, but they have to investigate.

I just feel like I can do nothing to help him, I can see him disappearing in front of me, and I feel just as helpless as when I had to watch my dad slowly disintegrate in front of me at 9-10yo. I know that that is my issue to deal with, but FFS isn't once in a lifetime trying to get someone with MH probs to see a doctor, and failing and having your life fall apart enough for any one person to have to cope with. To be going through it again, AARRGGHH!!

first well done for dealing with your own issues over the years.

i know that "mad" look in my exP's eyes - in 2007 was the big one but have seen it since, fortunately can now close the door on him...

the thing is that you cannot do anythigng to help him. he is an adult and is responsible for his own mental health.

you can only look after you adn your dcs...

if he is bad enough that you can get him sectioned then you can try and do that - but i suspect he isnt "bad" enough - my exP wasnt.

you are not repsonsible for your dad's suicide and you will not be responsible if your P does decide to take his life or to attempt to do so. it is the only way to look at it.

you are responsible for your dcs (especially because he seems to take them or leave them ie prepared to try to kill himself) and you are responsible for you -and you seem to be doing a pretty good job of that.

my exP is/was also very inconsistent - wanting to kill himself, or ringing me to tell me "i have stabbed myself with a knife and am bleeding" - then telling medical professionals he is fine, etc etc. one has to suspect there is an element of attention seeking/emotional blackmail going on....

maybe accepting you are not responsible for him and that his presence in this condition is doing more harm than good to your dcs might help? that until he seeks help you cannot continue to live together?

and that maybe - when he is "well" again - you dont take him back but continue to live separately - allowing more access according to his state of mind - so when he is bad again (as he will be if he doesnt get the right help - on most basic level - why did he never seek bereavement counselling after his aunt died and some counselling to deal with fear of cancer?) -when he is bad again - you can close the door... so he begins to learn - when he is anxious etc, his time with you is limited.

my exP is very cyclical too and i suspect undiagnosed bipolar - he is in a good phase now after people were asking me before xmas if he was going to top himself... but while this is good for the dcs when they see him i will not allow him over the door. because he will get "bad" again...

(my oldest ds has autism SLD so i do know the stresses that go with that...)

i oep your appt goes ok and that you have some rl support...

ps it is a hge failure of the gp system that they failing to pick up that is hypochondriac/there may be MH issues inolved with his constant going here for simple things.
but that is not your problem to solve

When my DP is going through a 'good' stage, he is the kindest, most loving, helpful man I have ever met. We always split up when he is going through a 'bad' patch, and I feel like I'm not supporting him as I should (as he supports me when he's at a good point). He does have his own flat, but is refusing to go there atm. I think he feels he needs the support I am offering IYSWIM. And if he goes to his flat, he will see his mother every day, and IME that just makes him worse as she compounds his fears as they are the same as HER fears.

I know, logically, that my dad's suicide and MH was not my fault, but I feel responsible for DP if only to prevent my DC's from suffering like I did.

I have posted (at length) on the social workers thread, and if you read that, it will show you why I am so petrified of having to ask for ANY help, or even telling my GP that I am struggling atm, and feeling down.

in a good phase (ie not depressed suicidal) my exP is very controlling and bullying towards me. so is different sitaution...

i did read the other thread and can see your dilemnas. however, realistically you can only support so many people - yourself and your dcs have to come first.

in fmaily therapy with my exP (as we were seaprating and i was moving out phsysically) they kept telling him to "own" his mental health issues and not keep looking to me for support when i had the 3 dcs to look after -that he was responsible for those issues. when there were others who could help him on that.

even if you want to care for him and support him - is it realistic to do so AND look after yourself and 3 dcs? something has to give... he cant help with the dcs in this state - you have to. really - he needs some support for himself. pragmatically speaking you cannot give it and he is an adult.

family therapy

There is an element of emotional blackmail going on here, Loudlass, as Cestlavie remarks. The fact he has called SS on you when you have tried to be firm with him shows he is not the fragile violet he tries to portray himself as. I recommend you get yourself a support group of some sort, maybe even with Womens Aid, and try to wean yourself off needing him for support at times when you are down. Then you need to get firm and specific with him about the circumstances under which he can have access to the children for visits. He is operating right now without any healthy boundaries in the relationship.

You are not responsible for his mental state or his suicide attempts. You are only responsible for you. You are both responsible, equally, for the children. He is not one of the children.

How would I go about getting family therapy if we are registered at different doctors? Would we need a referral from both GP's or just one?

I believe your GP SHOULD listen to you when you talk about your DP's problems as they are having a direct impact on your health! He/She might not be able to do anything about it but they should have access to information that might be able to help you deal with your DP and his situation better. Cop-out of your GP there, I feel.

Sorry, I don't know anything about family therapy so can't help with that question.

When you see your GP, make sure you explain fully why you are there seeking ADs again.

If not family therapy together than go on your own to someone who can help with issues of emotional abuse, manipulation -- if WA don't have anything suitable, then maybe they could recommend something.

Suicide threats can be very, very hard to deal with, and can be very alienating, very damaging to a relationship. You shouldn't have to deal with this burden he throws in your lap all on your own.

you only need the referral to fammily therapy made in your name. i went along with it because my counsellor advised me too an also i felt it would be a safe place to express things to him - that i wanted to separate and that i was prepared to try and co-parent with him and work on how to do that....and it was recorded too (tho is confidential).

i dont think it helped him at all - he kept arguing and storming out "call this family therapy? you justt helping to split this family!"

later i saw them on my own and it brought out lot of negative things that had gone on long before he got into crisis/suicidal phase.

wholly recommend you seeing someone on your own - but if you feel there is merit from gong to something togetehr then by all means...

I had it out with him tonight as he had been really thoughtless about things (putting a wash on when there's 3 kids in the house despite knowing we went onto emergency electric last night) It sounds like such a silly thing but he didn't even check or ask if it was ok, he wanted his clothes washed and fuck the consequences, and I proper lost it REALLY big time with him, and said he's got to sort himself out because I HAVE to be there for the DC's and cope with my own medical problems, and I can't be mother and counsellor to him as well, and I asked him who the fuck was there for ME when I need support, knowing I don't have a good relationship with my family etc, who am I supposed to turn to.

He got defensive, then started crying and when he calmed down he apologised and said he is going to try to sort himself out, and he understands that I've got enough to deal with and he's going to try to be there more for me. I just don't know if I believe him, or if I do, how long it'll last.

I do feel though mathanxiety, that you have the wrong picture of my DP. HE is not emotionally manipulative etc in this way when his MH is good, only when he is really struggling. When his MH is good, he is one of the kindest sweetest men you could ever meet. And I do know there were 'outside influences' when he called SS, as he was flat sharing with an (ex) mutual friend who wanted to shag him, and wanted to have my DC's with her as hers had been adopted by SS. (HE DIDN'T SLEEP WITH HER!). He would never cheat, in fact I'm the only person he has ever slept with. He is like a bouncy labrador during the good times. I know what being with a truly, all the time abusive partner can be like, and I can tell the difference between someone who doesn't fully understand what he's doing when he is seriously depressed, and someone (my ex-fiancee) that is truly an abusive twunty wanker that will NEVER come near me or my DC's again. DP is NOT that, he just, I think, needs more support than I have got in me to give when I have so much else to cope with. And it makes me that I can't give him what he needs. When he's doing well, he gives me what I need from him, and I can't do the same when he needs it.

thing is you said earlier that "He has always steadfastly refused to take pills or talk to anyone (even me)."

so he is refusing to take responsibility himself for his down times.

so if he has agreed to "sort himself out" that means he takes responsibility, takes the tablets/takes counselling whatever....

promising to be there for you is good but when he gets depressed he wont be able to...especially if he refuses the help he needs.

so what will happen then?

i think is a decision you need to make - sit and agree - when you get depressed this is the plan, we will call in support, you will go stay with xxx, or perhaps you will seek extra help with the dcs during these times so you can dedicate to his needs while dcs are being cared for....

if you cant practically support him thru his bad times (ie cater for your dcs needs and his needs) then who will??

and how - practically - will it work?

should he go off elsewhere when he knows he is getting depressed?

there was a really good article i need to find - a family where the mother had on-off depression and the father dedicated himself to her in those times thru love, thereby often neglecting the children in the process. it made the point - one person cannot care for both children and a sick partner ...something has to give...who should it be? whose needs come first? the article was written from perspective of the true dedication of the husband to his wife .... yet the children missed out.

i mean they turned out ok in the end and really it showed the power of love and dedication to someone who had good and bad times. because the good times were so good? i dont know...

maybe if you get the additional help you need for your dcs then you will have the capacity to support your partner when he needs it.

because the good times are so good, you say.... and maybe in those times he really gives you time to recharge? takes the dcs etc?

my ex sucked me dry even during his "good" times in many subtle ways...and eventually i saw that i could not be responsible for him in good or bad times.

your case is dfferent you say, he is fab when not depressed.....but, you cannot spread yourself in so many directions when he is ill.... you will burn out yourself.

how responsible for him do you want to be (or can you realistically be) - when he is ill?

so you need practical realistic solutions.

if you didnt have the dcs and your own health issues you could for sure dedicate yourself to him and give what you think you should - but you cant. not without jeopardising yourself or your dcs wellbeing.

that is the reality. something has to give. who should it be?

so if he realises that then you should be able to both agree what happens when he is in a down phase. or how to deal with his hypochondria you mentioned in the op so it doesnt affect you and dcs.

'Emotionally manipulative' isn't only throwing your weight around. The 'nice' part is part of the picture too. You get sucked into a cycle of optimism when he's being nice or healthy, and you can find it in yourself to excuse or cope with the bad part when it happens. Thing is, even when he's reasonable and seemingly fine, he is still not willing to consider taking seriously the effect of the bad times on you or on the relationship.

Manipulation results in having things your way, whether it takes place through overt or covert means. Your DP is having his own way on the issue of seeking help for his mental health and taking responsibility for maintaining his own equilibrium. He is not accepting his share of the responsibility for the relationship and keeping it ticking over. He is experiencing a disproportionate amount of the taking in the 'give and take'. You are not partners if you are expected to be his minder in some way.

I too have experience of an abusive relationship it was never full-on horror all the time. The good times made it all the more confusing and all the more difficult to think of disengaging from him. I came to realise he was always the one person not Good X and then Bad X I was dealing with one or other side of the same coin every day or from week to week. X had depression that he would not even talk about for years and years, and when he finally got treatment he took himself off the meds as soon as he felt better. He thought it was a sign of weakness - it was all about him and how he felt about the situation, in other words. There was nothing in his thought process on this subject about me or the children. Nothing about how his bad times were affecting us as a couple or how much pressure this was putting on me as a mother.

I'm going to try approaching this from a different angle for a moment.

I myself have suffered from depression on and off ever since I was 17; sometimes it was treated with tablets, other times with counselling and once, when I had a complete breakdown at the age of 25, with a combination of both as an outpatient in the psychiatric department of my local hospital. From my experience - and also remembering what many of my fellow outpatients said to me - people with mental health problems usually succumb to them when they CAN, i.e. when they feel it is perfectly 'safe' to do so.

The way things are at the moment, your partner succumbs to his problems because he knows you are always there to pick up the pieces, and that no matter how ill or stressed you might be feeling, you have the strength to put your problems aside and keep on going when he falls apart. Which is wonderful for him, but as you so rightly say, it's completely unfair on you. If he truly is fine when he's feeling good, then that's when you need to talk to him and lay it on the line. THIS CAN'T GO ON.

It sounds very much like he needs a lot of counselling, particularly if you say his mum was the same. It could well be that this is learned behaviour and he doesn't know how to break out of it because it's his 'normal,' if you see what I mean. That doesn't make it right, of course - and the fact that your children are starting to imitate his behaviour is a major sign that the cycle needs to be broken, and it must start with him, now.

RELATE are an independant marriage/relationship counselling service, and it might be worth getting in touch with them. But really, I'm afraid you have to harden your heart. If he's not prepared to take actual, concrete steps to helping himself, you have to make it clear to him that he's on his own. He may well make suicide threats - and even try to act on them - but he's a grown man who has to take responsibility for himself now.

I know that sounds horribly hard, but you have yourself and your kids to think of, and he's not prepared to do a little difficult work for the sake of you and them, then I'm afraid he doesn't care enough about you all to be worth sticking with. I've sucked it up every single time, so have the many people I've met over the years with mental health problems - so he really has absolutely no excuse. If he really is the wonderful person he seems to be when he's feeling good... well, now he needs to prove it.