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Original poster

This fear that social services will come and take your children...

643 replies

willsurvivethis · 29/01/2010 15:41

...it worries me!

There seem to be so many women out there who are afraid to seek help for depression and other problems out of fear that they will lose their children.

I have just asked MNHQ if they would consider doing something with this. Because surely if so many of us fear to lose our children something is going wrong somewhere! Surely we should all be albe to seek help with confidence?

What are your thoughts on this? I struggle with PTSD and even told my doctor that I tended to keep emotional distance from my ds when he's ill without even considering the possibility of that having repercussions.

OP posts:
Original poster
willsurvivethis · 31/01/2010 21:40

Leonie - I need to stretch my son's legs and arms every day. he screams, sobs and rages. In the summer with the window's open I've often wondered if any neighbour would ring ss and say every evening at 7pm this poor child screams and screams and they seem to do nothing about it. But I seem to have good (or indifferent?) neighbours.

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ImSoNotTelling · 31/01/2010 21:41

I can tell you what has worked for us on the sleep training front - but I suspect we had quite easy babies anyway so in no way saying this is a definitive answer!

Anyway when I want to cut out the night feeding (I BF too) I get DH to take some time off work and he goes in in the night when they wake. DD1 took 3 nights, DD2 we are doing it with at the moment and it seems to be working. Fingers crossed.

Have you tried that?

Just if I go in and don't feed them, then they go bananas (understandably). They seem to get the idea that they won't be fed at night and then they start to sleep better. i only do it once I am convinced they are not waking from hunger, obviously.

Oblomov · 31/01/2010 21:46

ISNT and Leonie, I have followed your stories, as you have done mine. I am so sad. I sit here sobbing. We are unable to convince anyone are we ? as to the damage that has been done to us. what can we do ? i know not.

ImSoNotTelling · 31/01/2010 21:47

willsurvivethis I am so sorry for what happened to you when you were a child.

It's so hard to know what to do for balance with all this stuff. So many people being investigated, probably more than ever before i would guess, and yet tragedies still happening all the time. That horrifying stat from the NSPCC about something like 1 in 9 (or 1 in 7?) children would be sexually abused before age 16 in the UK.

A new approach is needed. The one we have clearly isn't working.

ArthurPewty · 31/01/2010 21:48

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ImSoNotTelling · 31/01/2010 21:56

Well was worth a try leonie! These children can be tricky little blighters can't they

Note: That's exactly the sort of jokey comment I can't make in RL any more.

oblomov - I think in due course the family courts will be opened up. The campaign appears to be gathering strength, the broadsheets are on it, MPs are involved.

As for the psychological distress caused by being reported/investigated, even when exonerated, I don't know.

Original poster
willsurvivethis · 31/01/2010 22:01

I think if I was to be investigated by ss without reason it would finish me off. All my insecurities about being a mum, all the times when I feel I fail/failed ds would feel confirmed. I can't imagine what it is like to have gone through this.

But I'm going to say something very harsh and if you all want to attack me then I will know it is because of how much you suffered so will not take it too personally.

I rather have 5 adults dealing with the traumatic aftermath of an ss investigation that was unjustified than one more child going through what I went through. i was r8ped in 3 different ways before I was 10 and NO ONE noticed it.

(goes off and hides)

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Original poster
willsurvivethis · 31/01/2010 22:02

And nickname yes feel free to say this makes me irrational as I am totally motivated by my own personal experience.

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ArthurPewty · 31/01/2010 22:10

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ImSoNotTelling · 31/01/2010 22:20

willsurvivethis, the thing is, that the current way of doing things doesn't seem to be stopping any of this stuff happening.

I can see and understand your POV. Absolutely.

I wonder though if providing children with information about what is right and wrong in terms of contact, and ensuring they have someone safe to talk to, would help matters? Rather than this current idea where someone has to notice that something is going wrong with the child first, and report it, and then the people doing the wrong thing have to not pull the wool over SS eyes.

Prevention better than cure and all that.

I am so so sorry for what has happened to you.

Original poster
willsurvivethis · 31/01/2010 22:22

Thanks ISNT - on reflection not sure I should have posted this. Too personal and making me feel very stressed - plus way of the original subject....

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Original poster
willsurvivethis · 31/01/2010 22:23

Plus not taking into account the trauma suffered by children unjustly removed.

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namechange4this1sorry · 31/01/2010 22:24

nana - re your post about tarring all sw's etc that is not my posting. Our family had a really awful experience, prior to it me and my extended family included had absolutely no fear of social services and when it seemed I may get some support whilst suffering PND we welcomed it. Something I hugely regret. I am now a trained MH nurse and work alongside social workers and I do not think they are all terrible but you do get bad ones, just like you do in health care. We whistleblow, but there seems to be a shroud of secrecy over social work. The whole secrecy of family court and the power they ultimately hold in these arenas needs to be addressed.

Nickname123 - only just logged on and for you so much. I know virtual hugs are not the mumsnet way but sod it, I am sending a huge one your way. I really hope your little boy gets lots of cuddles and gets the chance to be reunited with you one day. Do you keep a memory box for him. The over affectionate statement - ditto here. I mean how the hell can you be overly affectionate? I also co-slept with ds1 but as I said before he was only with foster carers a week so that pales in comparison to the whole year you little one had.

Leonie - Mothering nursing toddler is a fab book and very helpful.

Read the links and made me very and could see so easily corrolations in the the situation. I so wish that my legal team had the knowledge regarding the bfeeding.

namechange4this1sorry · 31/01/2010 22:27

willsurvivethis. Dont hide, and it doesnt make you irrational. You just see things from your expereience which no child should ever have

ArthurPewty · 31/01/2010 22:30

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ImSoNotTelling · 31/01/2010 22:31

if you report the posts you feel uncomfortable with, MN will delete them for you, no problem

Just hit report next to the post and in the box say you would rather that personal information wasn't on the site.

ImSoNotTelling · 31/01/2010 22:34

I am boggling at the idea that a mother being affectionate towards her baby could be constued as a negative thing?

I don't get that at all.

There was a case where SS were interested in a family and I seem to remember they said the father of the baby was showing an inappropriate amount of interest as he went to visit them in hospital every day. I mean, what???

StarlightMcKenzie · 31/01/2010 22:46

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ImSoNotTelling · 31/01/2010 22:59

So what do you do?

I think you are right BTW starlight, about the power balance thing.

KerryMumbles · 31/01/2010 23:04

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mamadoc · 01/02/2010 00:41

I have appreciated reading this thread.
I am in the bad position as a Dr of sometimes having to be the one to refer someone to social services.
We have to attend cp training updates every year and it is always drummed into us that the welfare of the child should come 1st. The party line does seem to be better to refer than to miss something.
BUT it is always a horrible dilemma for me. I can understand (and even more so reading this thread) the negative consequences, the fear.
I also do feel a big duty to my patients and I want to be on their side unless there is really obviously something that I can't let go. I am first and foremost trying to help them and I don't want them to feel scared to come or that I am reporting back everything they say.
It would never cross my mind to refer someone who I was just seeing for depression. The times I've had to do something are eg single mum who got blind drunk and took an OD with toddler sleeping upstairs. Surely people would agree that child was at risk.
I also see the flipside of it. People who are adults now who had horrible childhoods and have been badly damaged where someone should have acted.
I often don't know where the line lies.
Maybe something about the way it is done needs to change. eg The thresholds for referral. We are all being told to consider cp all the time and I think some are over-reacting. There should be a way of discussing a concern without it having to be investigated.
I think the idea of having an advocate is great and often recommend it to people. Charities eg MIND have free advocacy services.

mamadoc · 01/02/2010 00:50

www.frg.org.uk/history_of_family_rights_group.html
This group are specifically an advocacy service for childcare proceedings and there is a lot of useful info on there.

atlantis · 01/02/2010 01:16

"This group are specifically an advocacy service for childcare proceedings and there is a lot of useful info on there. "

From the site;

" We were instrumental in influencing the preparation of the 1989 Children Act and associated guidance, which introduced the key principle of working in partnership with parents to secure the best interests of children."

That's worrying.

I see also that they are a 'charity', so are Bernardos, nspcc , coram and Tavistock to name but a few and all of those have written the 'framework' that every child matters is working too along with Margaret Hodge MP (child abuse scandal islington
council)all those 'charities' have money invested in the adoption framework (along with BAAF) they either run care homes, run training for prospective adopters or make money by providing propoganda literature for social workers and LA's and hold 'conferences' or 'training for said groups. It's like an evil little spiders web there to 'catch' the children fly.

There was a website that detailed in some length the actions of these groups and how much they made had invested in the adoption system ( I can't remember which one though, must look it out), BAAF , coram and Tavistock being the worst.

I remember the 'sure start' programme was also aimed at 'identifying' children in need.

Original poster
willsurvivethis · 01/02/2010 08:18

Atlantis I must be honest and say the word 'conspiracy theory' jumps to my mind reading your post!

Mamadoc thanks for your point of view- very valuable

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nickname123 · 01/02/2010 08:57

Imsonottelling

They probably wrote iwas too affectionate becausei wanted tospend most of the time cuddling him, he was only a baby.
They also wrote that i didn't carry him correctly for his age, because i held him like a baby.
And they wrote other things that werent true that he didn't respond to me much.
Also they wrote i had bad hygene, they set the contact in the furthest possible children's centre across the city to 'test my commitment' i had to walk an hour and a half each way every day as it wasnt on the bus route and in the summer, i'm going to sweat, hello.
If i was 6 minutes late, rather than just 5 they would happily cancel the whole contact session and take another weekday out of howmuch i could visit.
That's how they reduced it to just an hour a week before adopting him