This fear that social services will come and take your children...

[willsurvivethis]

...it worries me!

There seem to be so many women out there who are afraid to seek help for depression and other problems out of fear that they will lose their children.

I have just asked MNHQ if they would consider doing something with this. Because surely if so many of us fear to lose our children something is going wrong somewhere! Surely we should all be albe to seek help with confidence?

What are your thoughts on this? I struggle with PTSD and even told my doctor that I tended to keep emotional distance from my ds when he's ill without even considering the possibility of that having repercussions.

I can only write from my experience, as can you. What I have written is true of my experience of my team's
work with thousands of families.

I don't know how you get help to recover, without actually getting help and what the impact on childen is of any untreated illness, but from
my perspective mental ill health is a common factor on our work, so we tend not to get too alarmed by it or overreact. Also, many of us have experience too.

Also, where once social services may have been seen as the gateway to services, now the common assessment framework can be used and the lead professional coordinating services for your child could be your HV or CPN, whoever is best- this might be less scary for moat people.

No.

SS need to understand that investigation is a very unpleasant and scary experience, there does not seem to be any awareness of that at the moment. The results of these investigations are long term - stress, anxiety, people not seeking help with illnesses etc. These things are not in the best interests of children.

They need to understand that most people would view a visit from SS in the same way they would view a visit from teh police.

People who find themselves in this situation should have someone on their side. As they do when investigated by the police. tabouleh's points were good and valid.

They should approach sensitively - with an innocent until proven guilty approach. The vibe I got was guilty until proven innocent.

People should have to countersign documentation. In a work meeting, minutes are circulated and agreed. With this, you are told what you said, with no opportunity to correct inaccuracies.

And so on.

Mine was signed off as no further action, but the document still losts things they think I was doing wrong, and misquotes DH and I. That is now permanently on our record.

If there are no concerns or no further action required, why the need for a report which actually says "well they're crap, but not crap enough to do anything".

wahwah I have been looking for statistics about numbers reported to SS, for my own interest (to see how common it is which will hopefully be quite common which will reassure me a bit).

Do you know how many initial investigations are carried out by SS every year/how many reports they receive?

Google is not helping me with this!

Sorry my rather overstrident "no" was to scaredoflove asking if people were saying SS shouldn't investigate.

I understand SW can be abrasive and cold but isn't that the nature of their job? They must come across some really awful situations and horrible people and they don't know what they will encounter when they go into peoples homes

It must be devastating to be in these situations and I can understand the strength of feeling but I don't see how they can go in softly softly when many people they meet are rude and abusive and lying

Sonottelling, I'm sorry I don't have the answers, as I only have data for my LA, but you may find something on the DCSF site if you're lucky.

Scaredoflove, the thing is, the same thing could be said of the police investigating an alleged crime, yet the accused in those cases have enormous protection under the law!

Firstly, the law states that you are innocent until proven guilty, that doesn't seem to be the case with SS, most certainly not in the experience shared by some of the posters on here.

You also have the right to silence when being investigated for a crime. Can you imagine how that would go down with the SS?

Thirdly, you also are not bound by the crazy privacy rules that surround child protection cases, meaning that it is virtually impossible to challenge the system when you are going through it, without causing further harm to your case.

Shouldn't parents suspected of failing to provide a 'secure and happy' environment for their children be afforded, at the very least, the same rights as someone suspected of murder?

Wubblybubbly's got it absolutely right about SS giving people worse treatement than accused persons are given in police custody. Just think for a minute, if you happened to be a vindictive arsehole who wanted to destroy a family - all you would have to do would be ring up and tell the SS that the father (or eldest son, or grandad) is a peedaphil with porn on his computer. NO-ONE would ever believe that the person was innocent even if the SS said so. Right now we really do need to change the asssumption that anyone who accesses help is a moron or a monster who needs to be spied on and controlled.

From DCSF (in case anyone is interested!):

DCSF: Referrals, assessment and children and young people who are the subject of a child protection plan, England - Year ending 31 March 2009

Summary:

The latest statistics report on the period year ending 31 March 2009 and update those previously released on 16 September 2008.

The key points from the latest release are:

• Referrals. There were 547,000 referrals to social services departments in the year ending 31 March 2009, compared to the previous year's figure of 538,500. Of the 2009 referrals, 23% were repeat referrals within 12 months of a previous referral, a decrease of one percentage point on the previous year.

• Initial assessments (NI 59). Of the 349,000 initial assessments completed in the year, 250,500 (72%) were completed within 7 working days of referral. This compares with 226,300 (71%) out of a total of 319,900 for the previous year.

• Core assessments (NI 60). Of the 120,600 core assessments undertaken in the year, 94,300 (78%) were completed within 35 working days. This compares with 83,700 (80%) out of a total of 105,100 for the previous year.

• Children who became the subject of a Child Protection Plan or ceased to be the subject of a Child Protection Plan (NI 65). There were 37,900 children who became the subject of a plan in 2009; this compares to 34,000 in 2008. 13% of these had previously been the subject of a plan one percentage point less than in 2008. During the year ending 31 March 2009, 32,800 children ceased to be the subject of a plan; this compares to 32,600 in 2008.

• Length of time a child was the subject of a plan (NI 64). 6% children who ceased to be the subject of a plan had been on it for 2 years or more, one percentage point more than in 2008.

• Review of child protection cases (NI 67). The percentage of child protection cases which were reviewed within the required timescales was 99%, the same as last year.

Seems like a lot of reports and initial assessments.
Now going to find out how many families in the UK but bedtime may get in the way...

Couldn't agree more, guilty until proven innocent, the only trouble is you are never innocent because the paper trail of destruction will follow your child through their childhood.

The rights of the child are never adhered too, the right to a family life is a joke. The right of the child to have contact with the parent on a regular basis are ignored completely.

State parties ie; the government are supposed to provide the financing to keep the family together and offer support and yet sw's openly admit there is no financing for this and so children are taken into care instead of the family being helped and /or supported.

families

2006 there were 17.1 million families in the UK, but this includes couples without dependent children.

Families and household data shows 13.1 million dependent children in UK in 2008.

Have to make an assumption so say 2 kids per household on average = 6.5 million families with children. That seems OK to me next to the 17.1 million families data.

So according to the previous data, in 2009 roughly 1 in every 13 families in the whole country were reported to SS, 3/4 of these for the first time.

That seems rather a lot, doesn't it?

And 1 family out of every 20 had an initial assessment done.

I think my sums are right if anyone wants to check.

Going to think about those figures while I help DH with bedtime.

Hi,

not read the thread but my husband has suffered depression for years. I've been OK throughout a couple of down patches but generally OK.

However I have anxiety, I recently contacted my GP and have been refered to have CBT.

When the letter came I crapped myself as it said 'mental health team.'

It dawned on me that now both me and DH are 'under' them and what if SS gets involved because of that,

ridicolus really as my anxiety does not aafect me being a parent as Im anxious when im seperated from them, im fine when they are with me, but all the horror stories you hear have made me worry

I haven't read the whole thread but I am surprised that so many people seem to have a fear of social services. I would have thought that anyone who bothered to post on mumsnet was a concerned parent who was trying to do their best and that it would be recognised.

I accesed services for my perinatal anxiety, disenchated3, and there was never any hint at all that SS would become involved.

The problem is that you can't predict when or how you will be referred - many of the people on here brought the referral on themselves.

In my case it was an overzealous alcohol charity who did it on the basis of a 5 min phone call.

IMO having spoken to some people, HCPs do not refer unless they have a real and genuine concern, which they won't with you.

What happened to me was totally random. None of the people who knew me or dealt with me otherwise had ever had any concerns and were shocked to hear what had happened.

Try not to worry

ROFL pisces they didn't ask me if I was a MNer!

Disenchanted, from personal experience I hope I can reassure you that seeking help for depression/anxiety doesn't automatically mean that SS will get involved.

I had great support from my GP and through CBT when I was suffering depression after my DS was born. They were fantastic with me and really helped give me some tools to cope, nothing judgemental or preachy at all, just lots of support and practical advice.

I know it is difficult to seek help, I found it terrifying to acknowledge that I couldn't deal with it on my own but I don't regret it for a minute. I'm sure you're doing the right thing.

To look at the figures another way:

7% of referrals resulted in a child protection plan
11% of initial assesments resulted in a child protection plan
32% of core assessments resulted in a child protection plan

It seems to me the reporting and filtering mechanims are off somewhere.

I remember the GP asking me very specific questions when I went because I suspected I had PND. I was asked if I ever felt like hurting my baby or leaving him alone... things like that. I didn't feel that way at all, so I told the truth - thank god I didn't have those thoughts. But I know people who do have those thoughts but would never ever act on them, so I wonder if they answered yes to those questions, would they be referred to SS or red flagged?

I'm only mentioning it I'mSoNotTelling because so many people seem to worry about it-as in 'if I leave my 8yr old for 5 mins while I pop to the post box someone will report me for child neglect!! If I want to leave my 8 yr old for 10 mins on their own I will do so and social services can lump it!!

It sounded v funny though

SS: We need to come and see your children
Me: Don't you know who i am??? I am a Mumsnetter!
SS: Oh sorry madam terribly sorry to have troubled you

Anyone else find the stats interesting?

DH and I have worked out that during the course of your children getting to age 16, chances are you will be seen by SS at some point.

They also seem to be seeing more families than new families are created by births each year IYSWIM (some massive assumptions on the figures by DH and I there) but basically I think they are not in a steady state - as the years pass they are gradually working their way through more and more of the families.

This chimes with what the nursery manager said when I told her what was happening. She said it was really common and not to worry and it would be fine. She also said a lot of other things but they would be gossiping She was very very down indeed on SS. And she has been working with children for about 25 years so presumably has had her fair share of contact.