Lack of sleep and suicidal feelings - is that normal?

[BeckyBendyLegs]

I've recently developed a bit of a bowt of postnatal insomnia. When I've had a good night's sleep, I am totally fine, happy, bouncy, loving my life, children etc. When I've had a bad night I start thinking about how I can end my life. I've never had these thoughts before. Is this just a normal reaction to sleep deprivation? I have been diagnosed with mild PND but I only feel depressed when I've had little sleep for a run of nights. I was given sleeping pills and I felt great for a week. Now I'm not taking them I feel shitty again and my poor DH is getting the brunt of my 'I want to die' comments at 4am. I just want to know if this is normal. I don't think I'd actually do anything but the feelings seem genuine at the time.

i don't think it is normal. This is just my opinion of course but I suffer from repeated bouts of insomnia for which i take a mild and low doseage of dosulepin (ad). I am sometimes desperately tired and feel i absolutely cannot function. All my days during these bouts are totally dominated by my exhaustion but I never feel suicidal. I have thought that 'I don't want my life to be like this/is it ever gonna get any better, how much longer can this continue' type thoughts but never contemplated suicide or even been close. Maybe your pnd is not as mild any more. I recommend you get some advice from gp or similar. I hope you get some more posts on here and start to feel better soon.x

Do you feel suicidal or do you wish you were dead? In other words suicidal tendency or suicidal ideation?

And no, that's never normal. Sleep deprivation is torture (in some countries literally so) and it can make anything worse and certainly depression. I would agree with the previous poster that wanting to be dead does not fit with mild depression. It may be good to talk to your GP - consider anti-depressants instead of sleeping tablets. Or maybe some counselling would be better.

From experience 4am is the worst time of night, it's when everything goes round and round in your head and ends up out of proportion.

I think I just wish to be unconcious when I have been awake for so long and in my irrational mind being dead seems a way to do that. Sounds silly when I type it out. Because in the daytime I am really very far from suicidal. I am just bloody knackered. But I get scared about the next night...and desperate to shut my brain down.

DH thinks I need to cure the insomnia - so do I. I'm trying all sorts at the moment!

BBL - Glad you can realise that your thoughts are irrational. I know how you feel about needign sleep so much that you feel any way to achieve it is preferable to suffering insomnia! You need to get to a gp. I also tried Valerian and Hops herbal tablets. They did work for me. Also hypnosis cds while in bed or relaxation podcasts on my ipod. Sometimes noghtin works which can be very demoralising but as long as I get a few good nights when I get the bad ones i comfort myself that i will get a few good ones soon enough. Going to the doc really helped me. just knowing that i was doing something to address it helped me relax! i hope you get the sleep you deserve soon. I am with you!

i mean, 'sometimes nothing will work for me'

also, the worst thing you can do is fret about it. I know that is easier said than done. Just try to replace neg sleep thoughts with positive relaxing thoughts

Fancythat you are right. It is hard though. I did go to GP ages ago and he gave me zopiclone, heavy duty sleeping pills which are addictive. I resist them as much as I can. I've been taking herbals too - mostly work for me but I've been trying to stop and when I do - BAM insomnia comes back! It is hard... I want to be 'me' again. Used to sleep so well

Personally I often think GP's take the wrong approach.
Surely insomnia and suicidal thoughts are symptoms of depression and it is the depression that should be addressed.
Sometimes depression can creep up on you and its not till you start to feel better that you relise how bad you had been feeling.
Just my thoughts, if the problems carry on then do take them seriously and seek some help. x

But when I've slept well I'm so happy and content with my life and my three little boys! So it can't be depression, surely. Not proper black cloud depression.

Not sure, think insomnia and depression are so closely linked and its a chicken and egg senario.

I've just had a hypnotherapy session with my mum and it was amazing! She even told me that in the middle she had a coughing fit and I swear I didn't hear that at all even though I heard everything she said. Let's hope it helps me!

Is your mum a hypnotherapist or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

She is! I'm lucky. She's charging me one doughnut per session.

Thing is, at 4 in the monring ANYTHING seems possible/preferable to still being awake.

I had late onset PND with ds1 and it was truly awful. Early waking and not being able to sleep are classic signs of depression so I would say that you definately have got PND and/or clincial depression.

IMHO you should get back on the meds...why did you come off them by the way? There are meds you can take that are not habit forming.

Best of luck x

Hi Becky

Like you I suffered really bad insomnia after birth of my DD. Some nights I wouldn't sleep at all, just lay there seeing the clock go through all the early hours and watched it get light etc.
Most people can cope with one bad night, or even two at a push, but when it is night after night after night it does become like torture. I remember getting dressed in the morning after no sleep and just panicking about how I was going to get through the day and feeling so so dreadful.
I don't think I felt suicidal as such, but I totally relate to that desperate feeling of so much wanting to be unconcious. I remember wishing I could have ECT, not for the treatment, but just because it was done under general anaesthetic!
A drug that helped me greatly is mirtazapine - it's an AD but it also puts you to sleep at night - an non-addictive! I went down the zopiclone route for a while but was so scared of getting addicted - there are some real horror stories on the net if you google it. But mirtazapine is really good, I am on a v. low dose but it's been so helpful.
Also a book - Overcoming Insomnia and Sleep Problems by Colin Espie. Some good CBT techniques in there including positive sleep thoughts. How many times have you lay in bed counting how many hours till you have to get up and thinking: "5hrs isn;t enough".... "4 hrs? That's too short!" "3hrs? How will I cope?" "2hrs? Tomorrow's going to be hell".... This book helps you to reshape your thinking so you don't trip yourself up and panic over your insomnia!

I am happy to say I am soooo much better now! Woo-hoo! You will get there too, I'm sure of it. I still have the odd bad night but it doesn't fill me with dread and panic like it used to
xxx

Becaroo I came off them because they made the insomnia worse! And they made me feel really unwell and sick. Also my gut feeling was that they weren't right. I went back to the doctor and he said that I would probably get better by myself as I had with DS1, and I attend a weekly PND session which includes CBT techniques, relaxation, etc. Most of the time I feel very happy with my lot (when I've had enough sleep). At the moment taking herbal tablets at night again... and using a hypnotherapy CD on my ipod. Last night took 2 hours to get to sleep but once asleep I was fine.

You could try something like 5HTP which you can get from the health food shop.
It is an amino acid which is needed by your body to make seratonin, the happy hormone.
It can have the effect of helping you sleep and helping depression at the same time.
St Johns Wort will do a similar thing especially if you take a dose just before bed.
You are lucky to have a hypnotherapist as a mum, also it sounds like you have a great family round you so I suspect it won't be long till you feel your old self again.

I do consider myself lucky: I have a fantastic DH who has supported me so much this last month and my mum has been great too. I truly believe that a large part of getting over something like this is having family and friends who give support. And I have two lovely older DSs who give me lots of cuddles and make me laugh.

I don't sleep particularly well but I went through a stage when ds turned 1 where I could go nights on end without sleeping at all. I wasn't suicidal as such but I had never felt so depressed and sad. I just couldn't function without sleep and I felt like I was losing my mind. It was horrific.

This lasted for about a year and it wasn't until I came out the other side that I realised how bad it had actually been.

I think that chronic sleep deprivation can do awful things to you, actually. I am chronically sleep deprived (3 under 4, eldest with SN, all wake regularly in night), and feel desperately low at times. I am not depressed (genuinely), just so knackered that I can't think straight & the thought of making small talk is exhausting in itself!

how have you been feelin' Becky?

Hi Topsi, I had a better night's sleep last night thanks to Paul McKenna on my ipod (I want to marry him!). I hope things will improve as confidence breeds confidence doesn't it when it comes to sleep. I don't want to count my chickens yet after just one good night but if I am getting a bit better I know it'll take time still until sleep just comes naturally again as it did before Christmas. And when I've had sleep, I am soooo much happier. I read somewhere that often sleep deprivation caused by insomnia 'can' lead to depression as well as be a symptom of it.