Could really do with some help - Dh, depression and alcoholism

[Ozziegirly]

This may be long. I have been bottling it up for ages and have no one to talk to about this.

I have been married for 5 years, with DH for 10. He has always been a heavy drinker, but things came to a head last year and he started going to AA. He has been on and off alcohol now for 5 months.

He has also had some "issues" with depression, although has only self medicated with St John's Wort (and alcohol).

He knows that the two go together. He gets depressed, then drinks, which makes him depressed.

He also had a mini breakdown about 8 weeks ago and is now on Esipram for anxiety. The anxiety is directly linked to his job (he has an a**hole boss and is doing a demanding job that he has had no training for).

Anyway. Since we have been together these issues have always been lurking. We emigrated to Aus from the UK in Nov 2007 and since we have been here it seems in some ways worse and in some better (in that he is going to AA).

I think it seems worse as I have none of my friends around to take my mind off it. I feel very alone here.

Over the past few months he seems to have really started being properly depressed - AA is so good in some ways but also I feel that it kind of "legitimises" him drinking as it gives him an excuse to say "I just couldn't help it, it's stronger than me".

But to be honest, it's the depression that's making things so hard. He is so negative about everything, which I sympathise with, but it does make me want to scream a lot of the time. We are young, healthy (apart from this), he has a good job, we have families and friends and yet he ALWAYS sees the doom in things. I try to be light and breezy but honestly I feel like I can't take much more.

I am on the verge of asking him to move back to the UK, as although I like our life here, I just feel like I cannot cope with this depression and misery without my close friends and family to relieve some of the pressure.

We used to have such fun and I find myself looking at us laughing in our wedding photos and just weeping for what we have seem to have lost.

I want to help him, I love him so much and the hardest thing is watching him go through this.

Please, does anyone have any suggestions for me?

Wow, thank you so much for your input, everyone. MN truly is a saviour.

Your input about using AA as an excuse certainly rings true. I feel that DH has never properly embraced AA as he never saw himself as as "bad" as anyone else there. For example, he has maintained a job, hasn't driven drunk, still has a wife etc.

llareggub, your story is inspiring, and I agree that the two things should be treated separately. We don't have children yet, but I truly long for a child, but just have had to stop thinking about it for now as I can't bring a child into this chaotic life.

My update is this: I sat down with DH last night, and calmly and clearly set out the options. I said that I believed that he was suffering from depression, that I had some things for him to read and that I was asking, as a wife who loves him, to go to the Dr and be honest, and ask for help with this.

I said that I could not continue our life like this, and that if he was not willing to go to the Dr, then I wanted us to go back to the UK, as I cannot cope with this without a support network.

I said I would do whatever it takes to get through this, but I expected input from him.

He responded well. He said he was going to give AA a real go - a real proper go, putting it above work, everything, really getting into it, learning and working hard.

We have agreed that he will do this for 1 month, and if he sees no improvement in his mood by that stage, then he will go to the Dr. Equally, if he can't make 1 month without alcohol, then he will go to the Dr. So, kind of win/win really.

He seems hung up on thinking that if he removes alcohol, then the depression will lift, whereas I have told him that millions of people suffer from depression and aren't also alcoholics, and they may not be linked as closely as that. He seemed to take that on board.

So, he has gone to a meeting now.

We will see. I personally think he needs the added input of medical assistance with this, to understand WHY he started drinking in the first place (he doesn't have a background of abuse or anything like that).

When he was given Esipram he wasn't offered counselling - I have done research which says it should not be offered without counselling. Mind you, his current Dr has now unexpectedly left the surgery, so I wonder....

Luckily we can choose and Dr here so we will find him a better one, with a specialism in dealing with addictions.

Thank you again for your input, and no doubt I will be posting again...

Please do keep posting.

He sounds like an exceptionally lucky man to have such a supportive partner, but remember YOU need support too, friends, family or other, because it must be an incredibly draining situation.

Are there any other support services you could maybe plug into for yourself?

That's great, Ozziegirl. I'm sorry for not knowing from your posts, but is your DH going to just stop drinking, or has he already pretty much stopped?

My DH is what I would have termed a functional alcoholic, and like yours, has a job, a wife, paid the bills, was never violent or anything like that. They sound pretty similar, particularly in relation to their view of AA in the beginning. But, my DH's alcohol dependency was far, far worse than we (and he) suspected, and I naively encouraged him to just stop drinking. This can be extremely dangerous, and I would strongly advise a managed withdrawal programme.

DH went to see his GP (or was it A&E, I can't remember now) and was honest with them about his intake. Together they put together a gradual withdrawal and I dispensed alcohol to him like medication. That was probably our lowest point, it was awful. His AA buddies recommended replacing the alcohol with something sweet and sugary, and they brought him plenty of juice and fizzy stuff to replace the alcohol.

The first time he started going to AA he was pretty much like your DH. Second time around, he threw himself into it and got himself a sponsor, was honest with everyone and started working the steps. Then he got it! I'm sure he'd be happy to email your DH if he wants.

Have you read anything about co-dependency? You would probably find a book on this really helpful. It's all about how alcoholism impacts on other members of the family. And the effects can be just as devastating on others as they are on the alcoholic themselves.

All you can really do is shift your focus away from him to yourself. Unfortunately, there's very little you can do to stop him drinking forever or sorting himself out in other ways. You can drive yourself crazy trying to do this. It has to be his responsibility and his alone.

But you can start to focus on yourself and your own needs which may have been left a little by the wayside, what with all his problems.

There's a book called Co-dependent No More which is one of the better-known ones. Hope that helps a little.

Thanks everyone.

We actually had an ok weekend and did loads of talking.

It actually feels quite liberating to be telling myself "this is not your fault, it's not in your control, it's up to him" - and actually in telling him that I am going to "withdraw" to an extent from AA etc (albeit with continuing to give him support), I actually think it's made him more determined to do it.

We have also discussed him giving up his job, and I think he is going to do that, and spend a month or so getting fit, going to AA, and deciding what he wants to do.

We have also said that we may go back to the UK in a year or so, as he actually also said that he has found it hard to be away from his friends (he hadn't said so before). Luckily our friends are all a lovely lot and will be fab when Dan tells them that he no longer drinks.

BTW, he is not drinking at the moment - but we have been at this stage before....the longest he has not drunk so far is 21 days.

So, I'll keep you updated.

Being just the two of us here I think has heightened things for both of us, as neither has an "out".

Thank you so much for your support everyone, it's really been so helpful.

Ooops, didn't mean to put his name in!

I, of course, mean "DH"....

Glad to hear it. It all sounds very positive.

I think it's easy to underestimate the amount of strain being an expat causes. Especially somewhere like Australia - you think well, it's not like I'm living in some dump like Manila, I should be loving it, everyone back home is jealous. But of course the daily reality is that no amount of sunshine and beaches can really make up for missing the people you love.

Well done Ozziegirly it sounds like a very productive weekend and you sound so much more sorted about it all, which is great achievement.

Best of luck to you and your dh.

ninedragons, you're totally right (again!).

We are both very independent people who never really did the "big family dos" when we were in the UK, so I think it took us both by surprise that we are missing people so much.

And when we made the decision to come, it was all exciting and adventurous, but now it's like normal life, but with none of our friends. We have made some new friends, but we don't have any shared history and they are more acquaintences than anything else.

It's tricky though, because there are still lots of things I don't like about the UK, and I wonder if I am still thinking "the grass is greener".

My mum put it well - it's like you're deciding to break up with a perfectly nice boyfriend, who you can see lots of good bits in, but you're just not sure if he's "the one".

I think it's harder to make friends in your thirties than earlier in life. Coming home after 14 years abroad, I am in the same boat as a new arrival - I only really have two friends here whom I knew before I left. Some have moved overseas themselves, and some I have drifted so far apart from there's nothing to salvage.

In fact the last six social occasions we have been to were all with friends from HK (where we spent most of our twenties) who were here on business or holiday. The last time I went out with someone who actually lives here, it was with brightongirldownunder (who is a hoot).

I've said it before on here, but the best way to cope with being overseas is to remember you're an immigrant and not a refugee, and home is at the other end of a plane journey if you need to go.

Yes, you're right - and I also need to keep telling myself that if I'm not enjoying something, it's not a life sentance, I can just do something else.

I think that has been part of the problem with DH actually. He built up his job into this mountain of worry and stress when I kept telling him that it didn't matter, we could get by etc etc, and it seems it is only sinking in now that he could actually do something else and we would be fine.

He spoke with his dad at the weekend as well, and asked him if he would be dissapointed if he gave up his banking career (his dad worked hard to give DH and DBIL all the chances in life, sent them to good schools etc) and his Dad just said "all your mother and I want is for you to be happy". (sob)

I actually think that, more than anything I have said has made him feel that he isn't trapped!

I think the depression and alcoholism are linked - his mood has lifted slightly by discussing concrete options of things to do, and he chose to go to an AA meeting yesterday whereas in the past he might have found an excuse not to go.

I am not in any way getting my hopes up, as I appreciate we have a long road and will have setbacks, but at least it looks a little more positive.

Certainly with my DH I felt depression and alcoholism were linked, and that one fed the other. It is great news he is not drinking at the moment.

I think in the beginning I was very detached from the whole AA thing. I was busy taking care of our newborn, but I think it was a self-defence thing aswell. I think in the end it was better for DH's recovery, because I wasn't wading in giving him advice, and pep talks, and I didn't feel the burden was on me to get him better. This is more in hindsight, you understand! I do ask him how meetings have gone, and I get the usual response which is scant on detail due to anonymity, and really that is how it should be.

Remember, one day at a time...

Ozziegirly, glad things are sounding better for now.

"It actually feels quite liberating to be telling myself "this is not your fault, it's not in your control, it's up to him" "

Think this is so true, it's extremely liberating to know it's not all down to you to sort him out. It's like a little weight has lifted, isn't it.

HI I'm glad things appear better for you!

Its fantastic too that you now have responses from posters who have been in similar positions, who really understand how difficult it is to live with an active alcoholic, but who have come out of the other side, as it were.

Keep posting!

"It actually feels quite liberating to be telling myself "this is not your fault, it's not in your control, it's up to him" "

Pleased to hear this, Oz - and, as I said earlier, that's exactly how the higher power concept works, ironically enough. Believe it or not, your husband probably has this crazy little world going on in his head where he has to control EVERYTHING - the money coming in, the home, jobs - but also your happiness, his friends' opinions of him, the economic climate, the tone of the neighbourhood, his health ... In other words, even though he doesn't realise it, and even though he is almost certainly deriving no pleasure from it, in a way HE IS GOD. That's an incredibly stressful way to be, especially if you're mortal. Drinking not only relaxes him (at least, the first glass) it also gets him pissed so that he can't possibly be responsible - after all, who'd put a drunk in charge of anything? Sadly, when he does that, very real responsibilities fall on you and his other friends and loved ones. If you take away the drink, you also need to take away that misguided sense of responsibility.

For the record, I am longish-term sober (just over six years, one day at a time) and, outside of AA, a confirmed agnostic. As I was told when worrying about similar questions, "the only thing you need to know about God is it's not you!"

As for his friends not minding, if they are real friends, rather than just drinking buddies, I imagine they will just be incredibly relieved that they don't have to take a time bomb to the pub anymore. I know, too, that when I finally "came out" as an alcoholic, it transpired that I was the last to know ...

It's brilliant that you are supporting him in AA but, if he starts to lean on you or using AA as an excuse rather than a remedy, give him hell! AA is about being helped to get back on your feet and then standing on them, not about getting your arse wiped for you.

Happy to discuss this or anything else further, with you or with him, on this thread or off.

Really do wish you the best of luck.

S

Blimey, manIfeellikeawoman, that is exactly what my DH is like. Thanks for posting that, it is what I've long suspected but now you have confirmed it. I don't mean he is controlling per se, but he blames everything on himself.

Oh yes, DH always blames everything on himself and feels responsible for things - which was why I was thinking of the depression really. It's very frustrating!

I think you're right about his friends as well - the number of times they have had to pour him into a taxi, or, his speciality - just wandering off into the night - amazingly he always made it home basically in one piece.

He is fairly contrary as well - which is now working in my favour. In the past, if I would ask him if he was going to a meeting etc, he would find an excuse not to go - whereas now I am not asking and he has been to three. I guess - he is a grown man and feels like he shouldn't be nagged, which is fair enough.

I think I have tended to "look after" him as well, which I am trying to stop. So for example, a letter came yesterday which I was sure was from his Dr, fining him for missing an appointment - my first thought was to hide it, and then I thought "no, I shall let him deal with the repercussions of his actions" - and he called them up to explain, and all was fine.

I have been overwhelmed by the support here on MN. It's difficult in real life, as especially where we are living, there aren't really great resources for people unless they have literally been thrown out onto the street. The idea of the "functioning alcoholic" in South Australia seems to be something only "fancy Sydney folk" would be dealing with....

Same in Britain - outside of the big cities, it is my experience that AA IS the resources for drunks, unless they are also rough sleepers or fighting mad.

Good idea making him face up to his responsibilities - as long as you're on hand to help if he genuinely needs it (ie do it with him, not for him.) Does your husband have a copy of the "Big Book"? You might want to read it ... For example, in the chapter called "To wives", it specifically says that, if his boss calls up asking why he hasn't come into work, you should NOT lie for him, but pass the phone over to him to talk himself out of it! (Obviously, this is one of the bits of the book we are less evangelical about when we first come to AA ...)

Thanks MIFLAW, he does have a copy of the Big Book, and I will read it. I agree that there's a line between covering up for him and making him take responsibility. Hopefully he knows I will always be there, but equally that I am not going to make excuses for him.

When he isn't drinking things are so wonderful. He is a fantastic husband, kind, funny, clever, interesting. We went out for a walk last night and just chatted and chatted and it was so enjoyable.

My greatest hope is that he can stay sober as he really is a different person - the person I married and always want to be with.

You could almost be quoting the Big Book ... Don't neglect the stories at the back, they are not only fascinating in their own right but also help a lot of people to identify with alcoholics who have gone before them.

One word of warning - what I've said definitely still stands, but don't be too surprised at the number of things he genuinely does need help with. You may find, for example, that he struggles to show affection except thorugh buying stuff; finds choices and planning a genuine source of anguish, even for simple things like what to buy in shops; struggles to see the difference between enough and too much in all sorts of things, not just drink; does not know how to make a budget and stick to it (even though he's great with other people's money); reacts incredibly badly to criticism and also takes it extremely personally; struggles with sex while sober; the list goes on.

This list is indicative of the level of ordinariness that might initially cause him problems and that he will need to learn from scratch. There might, of course, be nothing on this list you recognise per se - the basis of it is nothing more scientific than things I struggled with myself ...

Hmmm, there are a number of things on there which ring a bell.

I feel slightly asking this. We haven't had sex while he has been going to AA. I haven't pushed the issue as he is very affectionate and I figure it will happen with time. He has said he just "doesn't feel like it" and as he is still very openly affectionate with me, that's fine for now.

But, my question is - it's not like we only ever had sex when we were drunk! We used to do it in the morning all the time (sorry, TMI). So why is he finding it difficult? What would you suggest i do? Just hang back and let him make the first move, or should I try a gentle seduction?

He also came home with three bunches of flowers for me last week so I see what you mean there.

Money wise we are ok, as we already had a budget that we stuck to even when drinking, and that's still going ok.

Funnily enough, he has been different at planning stuff - he would always leave all shopping/weekend planning to me, and now he's making more decisions, which I actually really like, but I can understand that would have been difficult if I had got used to that "role".

But the sex thing is the main thing for me.

I know it's not medical....I can tell from the morning snuggling (sorry, again, waay TMI), so I imagine it's emotional, but what can I do?

This is a very difficult question because I can't see inside your husband's head (though I can have a pretty good guess at what is there) but also because I know from my own partner that explaining an alcoholic's experience with alcohol to a non-alcoholic is not easy. Even when some of the wrods are the same - like "drunk" - they can have different meanings ...

But I'll have a guess. The first thing I'd say is something I've said on MN before, though not on this thread, I think. AA is full of slogans and a very popular one is, "When you stop drinking, the good news is, you get your feelings back. The bad news is, you get your feelings back!" As you can guess, not all of those feelings are positive, especially the ones about oneself - attractiveness, interest to other people, competence ... In general, not just in the bedroom, a lot of alcoholics find intimacy and even just socialising difficult. Part of the early attraction of alcohol is that it makes those situations so easy in various ways and that's true for non-alcoholics too. The problem for alkies is that, because their relationship with drink becomes so all-consuming, they never learn any alternatives to this fairly limited strategy. You may find that emotionally your husband still feels 17 (or however old he was when he started putting his back into his drinking.) There is a reason why 17yo's normally shag each other - it's because the thought of being with someone much more experienced, but also much more sorted and grown-up and wise and happy, terrifies them! Your husband may just be going through a phase where his emotional age catches up with his physical age. It will happen, it's not personal, and it's all about him, not you - give it time.

The other thing is that a heavy drinker, though not necessarily "drunk" in the morning (though you'd be surprised what some alkies get up to when they just "nip to the bathroom" first thing) is still hungover and, when you are always hungover, that starts to have its positives too. The world is a bit blurred, a bit less in-your-face. Without a drink in him, your husband is now seeing everything in glorious technicolor, with razor-sharp edges, 24-7 - including himself naked! It takes a bit of getting used to, if I'm honest.

Does any of this help? Also, I must stress I am not the voice of AA by any means - just an ex-drunk who's happy to be out of the madness. Would any other ex-drunks care to corroborate my evidence?

That's really interesting actually, and I think probably spot on, especially the bit about feeling 17!

I have not made a secret of the fact that I would love a baby, although we are not trying at the moment - but I do wonder if DH feels that sex = babies at the moment, which of course would be really worrying if he doesn't feel ready for that (which he doesn't!), and would of course feel scary if he is still in the mindset of being 17 rather than a sucessful 30 year old!

I guess I will just hang back for the time being. He's doing so well in everything else that i don't want to push him, and emotionally he is being lovely to me, really fantastic, so if I have to put up with this, it's not the end of the world.

Ozziegirly (and others) - I am glad I came across this thread. Sorry to burst in but I have a good friend who I think is an alcohlic who drinks I would say well over 100 units per week. He binge drinks a lot but is a nice man and his wife is very worried and loving and supportive but does not know what to do.

He will not admit he is an alcoholic and I do not know what to say to his wife. I think from what I have read here its is possibly due to a deep insecurity. Outwardly he is gregarious but is actually not. He needs a drink to sustain the facade in high pressure situations like his job.

llaregubb - I am especially interested in your note on functional alcoholism. It sounds a lot like my friend.

Ozziegirly - if there is a positive in your situation then at least your DH is going to AA and that is a big step further than my friend and that is at least something to build on.

I wish you (and your DH) well and I am sorry I cannot provide any answers to your problem.

Ozziegirly - rest assured, it won't take him 13 years to catch up!

I don't want to give any practical advice because that's one way we are all different - some people would react very well to a woman taking the lead (removal of responsibility to be in charge) while others would dread that (I control the pace = less threatening because I won't be judged.) Sorry, that's almost definitely too much information ...

If I could give you any advice it would be to keep talking and to let him know you have been in contact with other AA members and would like to check whether he really does feel the way you think he feels. You never know - the awareness that you understand and aren't angry might itself be all the help he needs!

ABD - on the one hand, I always say that quantities are a bit of a red herring and it's your relationship with the drink that's the important thing. On the other hand, I can't see how anyone who's not a 20yo university student could possibly drink that much unless he or she had an alcoholic relationship with the drink! (I speak as someone who drank at that sort of level myself.)

If he won't admit it, that's hard. Encourage his wife to get support, not to isolate, not to mollycoddle him and, ultimately, to look after number one, just like he is doing - it sounds harsh, but the worst thing she can do for either of them is to let his drinking pass for reasonable or acceptable. If you don't believe me, just ask my exes.