Could really do with some help - Dh, depression and alcoholism

[Ozziegirly]

This may be long. I have been bottling it up for ages and have no one to talk to about this.

I have been married for 5 years, with DH for 10. He has always been a heavy drinker, but things came to a head last year and he started going to AA. He has been on and off alcohol now for 5 months.

He has also had some "issues" with depression, although has only self medicated with St John's Wort (and alcohol).

He knows that the two go together. He gets depressed, then drinks, which makes him depressed.

He also had a mini breakdown about 8 weeks ago and is now on Esipram for anxiety. The anxiety is directly linked to his job (he has an a**hole boss and is doing a demanding job that he has had no training for).

Anyway. Since we have been together these issues have always been lurking. We emigrated to Aus from the UK in Nov 2007 and since we have been here it seems in some ways worse and in some better (in that he is going to AA).

I think it seems worse as I have none of my friends around to take my mind off it. I feel very alone here.

Over the past few months he seems to have really started being properly depressed - AA is so good in some ways but also I feel that it kind of "legitimises" him drinking as it gives him an excuse to say "I just couldn't help it, it's stronger than me".

But to be honest, it's the depression that's making things so hard. He is so negative about everything, which I sympathise with, but it does make me want to scream a lot of the time. We are young, healthy (apart from this), he has a good job, we have families and friends and yet he ALWAYS sees the doom in things. I try to be light and breezy but honestly I feel like I can't take much more.

I am on the verge of asking him to move back to the UK, as although I like our life here, I just feel like I cannot cope with this depression and misery without my close friends and family to relieve some of the pressure.

We used to have such fun and I find myself looking at us laughing in our wedding photos and just weeping for what we have seem to have lost.

I want to help him, I love him so much and the hardest thing is watching him go through this.

Please, does anyone have any suggestions for me?

So sorry that you are feeling like this Ozziegirly. I have no experience of Alcoholism but I fully sympathise with the feeling of being alone when going through problems with your dh. Do you have a branch of Al-Anon near you? Could that help do you think? Do you have Al-Anon in Australia??

If he is attending AA would he also be open to seeing a counsellor? Cognative Behavioural Therapy can be VERY effective in treating depression afaik - and good in as much as it is generally short term.

Is there anyone in RL you can confide in? It seems as if you need to get some RL support so you can support him.

Sounds like it mught be time for a spot of tough love. Addicts are in some ways deeply selfish, so it may not even have crossed his mind that this is hard for you to deal with.

I'd sit him down and say look, here are your choices. You beat this thing once and for all, or we pack up and move back to the UK because I am NOT dealing with your falling apart 10,000 miles away from MY support network.

I agree that the AA might be giving him a bit of a sense that he's a righteous victim. You need to point out that the the thing he has identified as the major contributing factor to his depression/alcoholism, i.e. his arsehole boss and stressful job, are not beyond his control. Anyone can go out and start looking for a new job. If that's what it takes, that's what he needs to do.

Are your visas tied to his job? Are you in Sydney? Sorry, I can't remember - I do lose track of the Aussies.

Hi there.

I have been to an Al-Anon meeting, but to be honest, it was awful. Just 4 old women talking about how their life was ruined by their alcoholic partners, whereas I was looking for some kind of positive help!

I have got on at DH before to see a counsellor - he is not receptive, even though I think CBT would work really well on him. He keeps saying the Dr is "useless' even though he patently isn't.

It's so frustrating. He said last night "I would pay a million dollars not to feel like this" but he won't listen to my reasonable suggestions to go back to the Dr and take ADs (even though the Esipram worked well).

I feel like saying "I cannot continue to have any sympathy for you until you go to a Dr again, tell them the extent of your symptoms and start taking antis Ds and having counselling" - but I am unsure of going down the "tough love" route as I don't want to push him over the edge.

I don't have anyone to confide in - I'm not close enough to anyone here really. I do feel like I need support. I feel like I'm floundering and don't want to make things worse.

Ninedragons - that is exactly it - I do think he now sees himself as the "righteous victim", that's a brilliant way of putting it.

It's like this is now the only thing we ever talk about as well, so it really grinds you down.

And I have told him that he could leave his job tomorrow - but I know that the job is not the root of the problem, it's the depression and drinking (even though I don't think he can stay in the job long term).

Luckily our viasa aren't tied to the job, we're premanent residents. We're in Adelaide (used to be in Sydney).

AA is good in so many ways - he has a brilliant sponsor. But this "giving over to the higher power" is actually kind of pissing me off, because it's like he can absolve himself of any responsibility to get better.

Plus, he keeps saying that he needs a "sign" of what he should do next work wise, and when I make a suggestion that we sit down and go through options, looking at strengths etc, he just doesn't bother (whihc I kind of guess is due to the depression).

Sorry about spelling by the way.

Living with someone who is depressed is very trying, my dh was depressed and very angry for the last year we were in the UK. FARKING ANNOYING. Also I agree with ND's very sound advice about addicts being deeply selfish.

Sorry Al-Anon was such a depressing (ha) experience. Has he stopped drinking? Is there a reason that he doesn't want to take AD's? They can make you feel very wierd for a while which is unpleasant. There is an Aussie organisation called Beyond Blue which may be worth a look.

Do any of your UK friends or family know what you/he is going through?

I would be wary of him leaving his job without another to go to. Even though his current one sounds awful, to be at home all day is dull and probably would be very difficult to cope with the boredom/lonliness etc without drinking or sinking further into depression. There is something positive to be said about the daily routine of work. I don't mean that he should stay in a job which is making him unhappy but maybe a sideways step rather than chucking it all in for nothing.

Does he exercise? I know it sounds trite but those endorphins are brilliant at lifting ones spirits. Also good for getting anger out of your system and good for socialising.

Have you put it in bald terms how hard this is for you?

Not that I've ever had anything to do with AA, but I do get the impression from what I've read that it reinforces the idea that the alcoholic is the centre of the universe. It almost sounds the tiniest bit narcissistic. But then I am of a far more pull-yourself-together Anglo-Saxon disposition than all those touchy-feely Americans!

Waiting for a "sign" is ridiculous, as you know. I think a few home truths from you could balance whatever circle-jerking is going on at his AA meetings. Yes, he's got a problem, but it's not the only problem in your family. You have a big problem too and it's being shoved off the stage by his.

He is on and off drinking - and things are SO much better when he stops, so it is very frustrating when he goes back to it.

I don't really know his reason for not wanting to take anti ds, I think it's a kind of belief that something really is wrong if he tells the Dr about it, IYSWIM?

I will look at Beyond Blue, thank you for that.

No one in the UK knows - he has skirted around the situation with his parents but they don't know the full story and I haven't told any of our friends as he has told me not to.

The burden on me feels huge, but I feel guilty for feeling that way, as clearly the burden on him is bigger.

I think the thing I find so frustrating is that there is so much help and care out there - we have private healthcare as well so basically any care options are open to him, if he would just take them.

Man, I am going to get blasted for referring to AA meetings as citcle-jerking. I forgot we weren't in our little Living Overseas backwater.

I fully agree ninedragons. I am also of that pursuasion (and so was DH before all of this!). I wish there were other options for alcoholism, I really do!

AA is all about putting their recovery first, which I do support - but I am there in this marriage too, and it's like I have no say in how things go from now on.

I hope not ninedragons!

I haven't been to any meetings, but I do not understand (and I have asked, but no one has been able to answer) this fundamental question:

If alcoholism is a disease, as they say, then how can it be solved by talking and giving yourself over to a "higher power?"

If someone suggested this as a cure for lung cancer they would be shouted down (and quite rightly).

For your own sake, start telling your friends back home. This is too much for you.

Oh and CS, I agree about the job too, no good can come of moping about at home. Plus, frankly, it's not like we are millionaires who can't work.

He does run - but not so much lately.

Thing is ninedragons, I kind of don't want to burden them with this when we are so far away.

But I may do. I don't think I can carry on holding this all in. I feel like I have a constant heartburn and I know it's stress!

Thanks so much for your help by the way - I'm heading home now, but will probably check in over the evening.

Ozziegirly there is a thread on here about heavy drinkers getting sober. Hang on I'll try and find it . . .

here it is. I've been reading it idly over the last few days. But it may be helpful for you to read - it may give a bit of insight into the hold alcohol has or it may be useful for your dh to read/join???

Ozziegirlie....my DH is an alcoholic and also suffers from depression. He has been sober for 2 years and 2 months. Pretty much the only option open to us was the AA, and thankfully our experience has been rather different to yours.

I'm no expert, but the basic premise I think behind AA is that it is a disease, so sufferers should decide that the only way to beat it is never to drink again, and the only way to do it is to continue going to meetings. Initially the meetings are about recovery, but as time goes on, continual sobriety comes from helping others in the recovery stage. DH did look at another state funded organisation, but they promoted the idea of controlling alcohol intake, which really gave him permission to continue drinking, great news for an alcoholic.

DH is still on ADs, and I really think the 2 things should be treated separately. I was pretty lucky when he was at his worst, as I could easily access free counselling through my employer. DH is still waiting to be referred through the NHS, and I really feel that he needs to explore the underlying reasons for him being an addict.

It has been a really long road for us, but life is far more positive now and in lots of ways I have a new, improved version of DH. Like yours, he had always been a heavy drinker, but 2 years on, he has lost weight, is more positive about life and is his business is doing really well. He was at his worst when our DS was born, which meant I didn't really get any support during the early days, as DH was pretty much going through withdrawal during paternity leave, so now that I am 32 weeks pregnant all sorts of bad memories and worries have come flooding back.

You may find it helpful to go to an open AA meeting, or to read some of the literature published by the AA. To be honest, at times I have been a bit resentful of the AA, particularly as I thought it was up to me to help and support him, and felt a bit displaced or redundant. On the other hand I am very grateful to the AA for getting DH through it and continuing to do so.

Happy to talk more if you want?

sorry to read about you going through this, especially when so far from your support network.

I think depression and alcoholism together can be very tricky, especially once the drinking gets permanently out of control so it seems like your dh is at a stage now where he hasn't completely lost control of his drinking, so a good time to access help!

It's a vicious circle really...if his job is causing him more stress but he is depressed and can't see the path out of that job, it's going to be hard for him to try and take everything on board. I agree with you in that counselling sounds like something he needs to do. When they prescribed him the Esipram, did they not ask him to see one? (I know you've said he doesn't want to go).

Have you spoken to someone about this? I know you say you haven't got many people there but imo, people with a partner with depression/alcoholism really need a support network otherwise it can feel very lonely. Might it be worth looking for a counsellor, someone you could offload to? I wonder if Al Anon would know anyone suitable (even if the meetings were hopeless!).

In hindsight, I didn't want to talk to anyone about what we were going through apart from the counsellor and people on mumsnet. I don't know why!

Is your DH working with a sponsor? It took DH ages to work out that he had to ask someone to be his sponsor, rather than one be allocated to him. Emotional recovery happens through the 12 steps, which is supposed to help addicts work through their issues.

It sounds as if he's still using excuses to drink, and that isn't what AA is about. Its about getting honest, and its also about looking at how your alcoholism has impacted upon other people in your life.

I suppose people generally hear about AA from alcoholics- which is why weird impressions are made but remember, if he's still drinking, he will be using anything as an excuse to drink, and it sounds like he is from what you say, but then he will do that. Alcoholics are manipulative remember..

Perhaps you should have a chat with his sponsor, who maybe needs to put him straight on a few things?

Sorry you are living with this- the impact for you of living with an active alcoholic must be devastating. Get some support for yourself, concentrate on YOU- you can't be both focussed on him!

There is a thread for the partners of addicts, although its been a bit quiet lately.

I hope you look after yourself first and foremost, but really he's using and twisting AA stuff to justify his drinking. He's an alcoholic.

Really feel for you, as I lived with a depressive for several years and it can be SO hard to keep 'smiling' when it feels that they're not willing to do anything to help themselves. Really tempting to think that you're doing all the supporting (of children as well as him) while he's being selfish and self-indulgent. You definitely need an outlet - I'm so sorry you're not near family or friends.

I do think it would be good to try another AlAnon meeting, though, maybe with some younger people - you're bound to find someone in a similar situation.

Jem is right about AA - it's about being honest, and although there's a lot of focus on putting your recovery first, working the steps is about achieving some humility and taking responsibility for the people you've hurt through drinking. It's the absolute opposite of thinking you're the centre of the universe. But I think this can be a frightening thought to people who have been using drink as an excuse for selfish behaviour, which is why some people drift in and out.

Take care of yourself and, as suggested above, try to do things that are good for you so you don't lose sight of your own significance and worth.

FWIW my experience of AA is this:

It does NOT it "give an excuse to say "I just couldn't help it, it's stronger than me"" - but someone who wants to drink could easily manipulate it into that. What it actually says is "until you knew you were an alcoholic, you couldn't help yourself. Now you do know, and that you know that drinking is no sort of answer, what are you going to do about it?"

Use of a sponsor - or other members of AA - is NOT "like he can absolve himself of any responsibility to get better", though again a manipulative drinker can make it appear so. A sponsor or any "old-timer" is there to point you in the right direction, not walk there on your behalf. AA is full of catchy acronyms and one of my faves is GOYA - get off your arse!

"If alcoholism is a disease, as they say, then how can it be solved by talking and giving yourself over to a "higher power?"" Well, "they" - ie the BMA and the WHO - say it is an illness (not quite the same as a disease, but close enough) because it is. But, while the physical side of it is in dispute, all agree that it is a mental illness. You wouln't treat cancer with CBT either, just as you wouldn't treat depression with radiotherapy. Alcoholics have been defined as "egomaniacs with an inferiority complex" - a big part of the higher power is to "let go" of the need to control everyone and everything, which the alcoholic often feels is his or her responsibility, even if it seems impossible.

As for "touchy feely Americans" - AA began with a Wall Street stockbroker and an "old school" GP, hardly classical touchy-feely types!

Meant to add - AA really can work but a prerequisite is honesty. It sounds like your husband is still not too keen on that. It doesn't mean he should stop going to AA - a lot of us start out as lying selfish self-pitying shits - just that it might take time to work its magic.

Good luck to both of you.