Crisis team mentioned autistic traits after son's suicidal thoughts, is that normal?

[Bunnybigears]

Seemingly out of the blue, to me anyway, DS2 15 nearly 16 went to his teacher yesterday and said he couldn't go on like this and wanted to kill himself.

Of course school called me, I went down there, spoke to Head of Year who rattled on about exam stress and we came home.

DS is adamant it isn't about school or exams and I believe him as he is generally chilled about these things and also on track for the grades he needs.

He has also ruled out friendship issues, bullying, online issues (he games), home issues, sexuality issues (although won't confirm to me what his sexuality is but says he does know himself and isn't confused) etc. so we are left with no idea what it is about.

GP had no appointments and suggested 111 who tried to talk to him on the phone but he is very quiet (almost selectively mute) so got no where. They sent the crisis team around instead.

The end result of that seems to be they think he has Autistic traits although can't diagnose and they will have a meeting tomorrow and try to get a psychiatrist too see him.

I don't know what I'm asking really I think I just needed to write that down. I suppose one question is they seemed to start asking questions that tie into Autism almost as soon as they came in almost like that's what they wanted the answer to be. Is that normal? Are they trying to push it down that route when that might not be the route cause?

I would consider yourself really lucky that they are assessing him properly and considering what else may be going on.

Schools are quite good at picking up when a child has autistic traits. A lot of autistic people end up with MH issues after years of masking and trying to cope within a system that only benefits NT people.

So if your son is autistic then it will help him to know and understand this so that he (and you) can adapt his life so that he’s not pushed to this point of wanting to give up.

I hope he is feeling better soon.

Oh I am absolutely happy that they are supporting us it just seemed that they were very quick to reach that conclusion given he has managed to get to 15 without his school or anyone else (he was under CAMHS for tics when younger) even considering it as a possibility.

I just don't want them to say "oh it's because he is Autistic ' when maybe he isn't and maybe it's not because of that at all.

Just to give you a heads up that they are doing this a lot.

The problem is that it’s not yet very clear if this is helpful or hinders a child. As then certain treatment pathways close down. If there’s definitely autism there, they may not access that due to the way services are stretched. There’s also very similar traits between depression and autism; specifically black and white thinking styles. His immediate needs are the suicidal tendencies and these still need to be addressed with or without autism. There’s also the issue that he may not get a diagnosis and so then what?

If he would find it helpful, there’s then an issue that online communities can be both helpful and a hindrance.

two GPs I know who suspect old style Asperger’s in their children are deliberately not seeking diagnosis; however one child is unaffected. The other was helped through via counselling and moving to a different college.

Your child may be different however. Just need to be aware of the implications. Which could be helpful. Or may not be.

There’s a huge review about to be released.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/independent-review-into-mental-health-conditions-adhd-and-autism-terms-of-reference/independent-review-into-mental-health-conditions-adhd-and-autism-terms-of-reference

Children ‘incentivised’ to get ADHD and autism diagnoses, say experts

https://www.thetimes.com/article/9a1df249-559e-4ac7-8985-26697af9338a?shareToken=a841aa8a0188c156ac3c7e546fb78ccc

Any good practitioner will consider all possibilities, including neuro diversity, when assessing a child who is struggling with their mental health. There are mental health issues such as GAD or OCD which have symptoms that cross over with ASD.

My Dd was seen by CAMHS first who brought up the possibility off ASD. They were very good with her but to have the full assessment meant a waiting list of over three years. The autism assessment team in my area have actually paused new referrals because they are so overwhelmed. I’m only telling you that so you can be prepared, because it’s similar in most parts of the U.K. if you can afford it, I would look into a private assessment.

It’s more likely for autistic people to have mental health issues than non-autistic people, so that might be one reason they’re considering autism.

There is also a large overlap between selective mutism and autism, so that might have led them to consider autism too.

ETA Tics are also more prevalent in the autistic population than in the general population.

It’s a very nuanced area.

This was a very useful listen.

At the same time I’m very keen that correct diagnosis is given earlier for children with a view that they are supported to reach THEIR full potential and address MH issues.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002t2wb?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

Tics are something which can be a part of a ND profile.

Being autistic can leave someone with a desperate feeling of being different and isolated. Of no one understanding.
That what everyone else finds easy, they find immensely difficult. They mask all day, every day in an effort to fit it. It is exhausting and bewildering.
If your son has had a decade or more of feeling like that, I can well understand why he feels desperate. Let the mental health guys do their job. Listen to them.
I hope your ds feels more comfortable soon. .

Ahh, OP, your poor boy. I'm sorry to hear how he got to a crisis point. And how horrible for you, too.

I'm relieved to hear how swiftly he got some intervention via the Crisis Team.

I have a DD who was selectively mute until she was 6. She was v bright, curious, quirky. Diagnosed, "Aspergers" at 13...she is now 29, I had no idea than selective mutism was so strongly associated with Autism, but these were words you used. Also the tics, as other PPs have mentioned, is highly correlated with Autism.

My DD ended up reading Chinese at Cambridge, going into teaching, leaving, as was disillusioned with the tight, prescribed curriculum, and is now working in an organisation that helps schools teach critical thinking, and how to recognise dis/mis information.

I questioned how helpful it was to get a diagnosis, ( had considered ND for a long time before pursuing an assessment). But I am very glad I did. What triggered me pursuing it, was a general decline in mental health...she became depressed, almost selectively mute again. I can't say it was a crisis, but it was a slow, steady decline.

She is largely happy now. In a happy relationship and recently went back to the school where she taught to present a workshop on critical-thinking. To great "whoops". It was a happy moment.

My point is, in your poor old boy, there are, indeed, some ND traits, and the crisis Team are good in picking this up.
Have you thought how hard he might have been working to "mask" this, and how it got to the point where he could not fight any longer....?

I wish you so much luck, this must have been truly horrible... for you, and he, and any other family. X

As a teacher, I would say that I've picked up on many children having autistic traits over the years but in most cases, I haven't raised it because it often doesn't go down well with parents (in my experience). Parents often don't see it, as they've never seen their child any other way. I also say this as a parent of a child who announced she wanted to be assessed for ADHD a few months ago and was shocked. I just hadn't seen any of the signs (partly because I have many of the traits myself and thought we were both NT).

That's interesting, @KookyMoose My Other DD (2) who also teaches, as my DD1 did, (see my post at 7.24) pursued an Autism diagnosis last year. She couldn't have been more different to DD1as a child... ( excellent social skills).
However, I really believe she was supremely masking, as a child. And she now displays more ND traits then my DD1.

I think you're right, about not necessarily recognising traits in one's own child....I'm, by no means, evangelical about getting a diagnosis, but, she is an adult and I can see she is struggling.

Hoping for a happy outcome for your DC.

Wow ,that is brilliant.so much support.
I remember actually trying to kill myself age 14 , obviously ended up in hospital.
Social services had a quick word with both my abusive parents and never spoke to me ...in fact no one spoke to me ..
A lifetime of difficulty,and age 50 I got my autism diagnosis...how different my life could of been if someone had noticed my autistic traits as a teenager..
Obviously as mum ,op you are worried..but firstly he was able to tell someone how he was feeling,and they responded well ,and secondly now he's getting support and autism has been suggested for you to get him assessed for .
And your son is going to feel so supported by all this xx

@Graygoose3
"A lifetime of difficulty,and age 50 I got my autism diagnosis...how different my life could of been if someone had noticed my autistic traits as a teenager.."

I'm so sorry you've struggled...I do, really think that we have to be more alert... having said that, sadly, you were a child of your time...and whilst I'm aware of over diagnosis ( there is a book by Suzanne O'Sullivan, The Age of Diagnosis), I'm largely reasurred that we are more aware.

I do hope life is a bit more peaceful for you now. X

That must have come as a terrible shock to you when you had contact from the school and also a shock to then have other ideas thrown at you.

Just to say, many young people (and older ones) have suicidal thoughts and that there is a difference between that and suicidal ideation. Your son did so well to talk to a teacher and articulate how he was feeling.

I too would be worried about a quick diagnosis not made on full understanding which could be wrong and therefore unhelpful. But whilst you are waiting, and should your son need support, Childline and also Young Minds are available. You mentioned your son doesn’t speak much: at Childline you can register online (www.childline.org) and can have what they call a “Chat” which is 1-2-1 instant messaging service between child and a counsellor. Just thinking your son might be able to express himself better in that medium.

I raised concerns about DD2 with the school from age 12. I knew there was something wrong but didn’t know what. (She couldn’t understand what she read, so it was quite a big problem in education.)

I had her assessed by the best speech and language therapist and neuro-educational psychologist, I knew of. The neuro-educational psychologist confirmed, she didn’t understand what she read, but the speech therapist said, it wasn’t a language problem.

At university, DD2 identified herself as ADHD, from research on the internet. The NHS assessed her and agreed. Then DD2 told me, how she had masked her problems for years. For instance, she can’t understand long conversations, but she just interjects “Good” or “Cool” every so often, to make it look like she does!

Last year, she did the AQ50, a screening for autism. She scored highly and her psychiatrist agreed to put her forward for an autism assessment. Not understanding what you read is one symptom of autism.

The school ignored my concerns and never expressed any concern themselves about her, when she has ADHD (inattentive type) and most likely autism. I am sure if she’d been a boy with ADHD (hyperactive type), they would have noticed!

DGD’s school never expressed any concerns about her; and it’s only because DS had her assessed himself (knowing it runs in the family), that she was diagnosed with severe ADHD and significant autistic traits.

OP, you cannot ime rely on schools to notice anything!