Can someone give me an idea of the thresholds for sectioning someone who attempts suicide?

[MinnieMountain]

TW: suicide

My half-brother who I rarely see attempted suicide last week. Our step-father said it was a cry for help but brother tells me he’s been sectioned.

Is it normal to be sectioned for a “cry for help” type suicide attempt or might it be felt that it was a proper attempt to take his own life? I’m trying to work out how ill my brother is.

What is a 'cry for help' suicide attempt? If it's serious enough to potentially end a life then it's pretty genuine. If a person reaches the point of trying to end their life because they feel so desperate for help then they are a risk to themselves.

Do you think it was a cry for help like a half hearted attempt to cut wrists or taking pills when he knew someonw would ve checking on him? Regardless it's probably more based on the conversation he had with professionals before or afterwards than solely based on his actions

Honestly, there are so many variables here I don't see how anyone respond effectively . I appreciate that unhelpful and I'm sorry. Wishing you and your family the best.

No one can really answer this question for you - there are so many factors. The threshold for being sectioned is generally set incredibly high now there are so few psychiatric inpatient beds. The 'cry for help' idea is nonsense. Don't you believe that your brother's been sectioned? Does he have form for lying?

I have a long term history of anxiety and depression. I recently tried to commit suicide. I’ve never tried before. I took what was described by medical professionals as a massive amount of pills and prescription medication. It was not a cry for help and I was determined to die. It was a fluke that I was found by the police. At no point was there any talk of me being sectioned.

I was carer for my exh for20 years of our 30 year marriage, because of his severe and enduring mental illness

it is extremely high bar for someone to be sectioned these days- beds are scarce and if at all possible patients will be cared for in the “ community “. Better described imhe as “drug and dump”.

if he has been sectioned, frankly this is almost certainly the best thing for him . It will mean he can be properly observed so his treatment and care plan is developed with his team at least seeing full extent of his issues. It will also mean he can be properly monitored to ensure he doesn’t get opportunities to try again.

many people have suicide ideation. They think about it. They may also self harm, regularly…this is not a cry for help. Any actual plans for suicide , whether successful or not, is not a cry for help. People try to take their life, or try to, because of extreme emotional pain that they cannot process or deal with. It happens when that survival emotion called “hope” is extinguished. It takes a long time, and a lot of specialist help to restore hope, and for people to heal from whatever pain has overwhelmed them.

he will simply not get that support if he’s under “ care in community “. With best will in world. Staffing from community mental health teams isn’t at a level for community care to be effective. In my exh case there was , for most of last 10 years, just one psychiatrist for the entire adult population in his heath authority, in the secondary mental health teams 🤬, they simply could not fill vacant positions.

if he is sectioned, frankly it’s the best thing . It means he will get observed and treated at least somewhat, before he is discharged.

Yep, make sure his “ nearest relative” under mental health act is informed and stays in close contact with his team, is involved in decisions on his treatment, and visit as much as they can, but then let teams do their stuff, as best they can given budgets.

With the way my services have been cut back if he was sectioned then he was a risk to himself or others as there are no spare beds for those that aren’t.

It's very difficult to get sectioned. Do you know what kind of section he is under? The initial ones can be for 72 hours and can be done by police or medics. My DH has been under a section 2, which is 28 days. It is based on the decision of two doctors and a social worker and is made only when it's decided that the patient has not got the capacity to make decisions about their care - especially if they have no insight into their condition.

If your brother has been sectioned, it will be because he's a danger to himself or others. In your case, it sounds most likely he's a danger to himself. Suicidal people are not necessarily sectioned, it all depends on how they present. I know it's frightening, but he's in the best place right now.

His next of kin may be invited, with his consent, to a ward review, where doctors and nurses will discuss his care.

Thank you for all the replies. It’s really helped me get a picture of how serious this is.

I’m sorry if I offended anyone by calling it “a cry for help”. That’s what step-father said, but he doesn’t like discussing emotions. DB told me he’s been sectioned. He’s in his 30s and has some learning difficulties. No form for lying.

His closest relative is his father, who has also been in hospital this past week. Our DM (the parent we share) died 5 years ago.

It definitely is very serious if he has been sectioned. It sounds like your DF has been minimising it for some reason. Maybe he doesn’t want face the fact that his son is so ill or he doesn’t believe in mental
illness (my father didn’t)

A mental health act section
2 for assessment
3 for treatment
has a very high threshold of severity to be applied -
2 consultant psychiatrist and an approved social worker, and usually the next of kin will all have to agree that the MHA is required to enable admission to inpatient unit when the patient is too mentally unwell to have capacity
your brother must be quite unwell

I would consider that the reasoning for sectioning and the attempt on life may only be “loosely” (for want of a better word) related

Ie psychosis is a common reason for sectioning. Trying to kill your self can just be one thing that happens “in the madness” of psychosis. The sectioning is to treat psychosis.

people are often sectioned because it is critical they have treatment but they are refusing to. There isn’t treatment (as such) for an isolated attempt on life so there just must be more to the situation than you’re aware of.

It’s a complicated family situation. Our DM married our step-father when DB and I were both adults. Step-father is being very good by still looking after him after DM died, which is DB’s preference rather than go back to live with his actual father, but DSF is emotionally stunted by being sent to boarding school at age 5.

Anyway, I’ll keep checking in with DSF and DB. At least he’s getting help.

Edited to add: It was the 5th anniversary of DM’s death recently. Maybe that’s part of it, although DB didn’t seem any more upset than usual on the anniversary this year.

DB has said that he’s likely to be allowed out accompanied for a run under section 17. So that sounds like he’s improving at least.