How can I get them to understand?

[ConfusedWriter08]

How can I get my younger children (DD9 and DS8) to understand how much their constant arguing and petty squabbling is affecting my mental health?
When I say constant, I’m not exaggerating. It’s literally from the second they get out of bed until the moment they fall asleep. He’s looking in her bedroom, he’s talking/shouting/breathing at her, he’s touching her things, he’s sitting next to her on the sofa, he doesn’t want to watch what she does and vice versa. She’s called him an idiot or a dummy (a whole other bone of contention), she won’t pause the tv, she’s moved his whatever. Then they go to bed at night and Alexa is constantly going off/pinging on my phone. He’s got Alexa too loud (he listens to white noise or piano music at night to help him fall asleep, ADHD), he’s trying to shout to her, he’s out of bed.
It’s so incredibly draining, and I feel like I’m a referee in the world’s shittest contest. We know that DS can be irritating without meaning to be as he gets bored easily, but equally DD is hyper sensitive and just picks at everything he does, usually defaulting to screaming at him. It seems that nothing I do or say makes a difference for longer than half an hour.
This morning I completely lost my shit and told them it makes me feel like I don’t want to live with them any more, and they just looked at me. I genuinely feel like I could leave for work today and not come back and all I’d feel is relief (for a good long while anyway). I dread being at home with them, and I loathe that I hear myself saying “sort your kids out” to DH whenever he’s here because I can’t bear to deal with them any longer.

Please, somebody tell me you’ve been through this and it gets easier soon?

I’m sorry you’re finding this so hard, but it’s not actually ok to make your children responsible for your mental health. You absolutely do need to parent and set boundaries, but saying things to them like this is damaging and not alright.

Family Lives have free parenting courses and a good helpline you might find useful.

Please don't threaten your children with abandonment. You should see your GP if you're feeling overwhelmed.

You cannot tell your 8 & 9 year old that parenting them is ruining your mental health or that you don’t want to live with them. What a toxic environment.

We have boundaries for them, and in every other aspect they’re amazing kids, but they just cannot seem to get along with each other. We’ve explained to them countless times how their behaviour is unacceptable. They apologise, say they’ll stop, an hour later they’re at each other’s throats again.
I explained to them that their behaviour makes me feel so upset that I don’t want to be around it and living in a house like this, I don’t think that’s unreasonable.

Sorry but yes, that is incredibly unreasonable. They are children. Children are not responsible for the feelings and mental health of adults. YOU are the adult here, not them.

Please seek some professional support.

Isn't this just siblings. Just leave them to it move rooms and give them no audience. Telling mine off does not work they just get worse. You could sit them down calmly and explain that it makes you sad/angry but I feel they'd just forget and carry on. Parenting is hard I feel most of us just survive the day 👀 I'm sure your doing a great job even though you feel you aren't op

Their behaviour is directly responsible for how I feel, do we just ignore that and raise children who aren’t told how actions can impact other people?

I explained to them that their behaviour makes me feel so upset that I don’t want to be around it and living in a house like this, I don’t think that’s unreasonable.

Yes it is, it’s emotional manipulation to pretty standard sibling behaviour.

You need to teach this in an age appropriate way. And it doesn’t automatically follow that normal childhood squabbling would have this effect on you - this is how you are reacting and not an objectively inevitable result. It would be healthier to just ignore them. Please seek some professional help. If you’re getting this stressed then you need some support.

Maybe have a search online for something called the ‘window of tolerance’. This is to do with how much you can cope with. You sound like you need help to be able to cope. That isn’t your children’s fault.

So, no, it’s not directly responsible for how you feel, and it’s not ok to tell your children that, and I’m hiding the thread now because this is really upsetting me after a childhood where I was made to feel responsible for my parent’s depression.

Lastly, have you considered that threatening them may make their behaviour worse?

It’s not normal childhood squabbling though. It’s literally constant, I don’t think I can get across how much I’m not exaggerating. It’s impossible to ignore as they scream and shout at each other every waking moment. They CANNOT be in the same room together. They physically hurt each other constantly, to a point where there have been several potentially serious incidents with a risk for life long/changing injury.

It wasn’t a threat. It was a conversation where I explained how their behaviour makes me feel very sad.

This. My mum had a serious mental breakdown when I was about nine and was admitted to a psychiatric unit. When I asked my paternal grandma why she was in hospital I was told that myself and my brother were to blame as we argued too much. It was bad enough seeing my mum carried away by four burly men at our local church when she had a manic episode, finding out she had swallowed her wedding ring, watching the neighbours kids gawping round the ambulance as she was taken away etc without being made to feel responsible. It is something which has something which has always stuck with me and I swear is why I constantly feel guilty for things which are not my fault.

If they are harming each other that seriously it sounds like you all need some kind of professional intervention. Could you try the school or your GP or even social services?
I do agree there's a big difference between 'you make me not want to live with you' and 'when you behave like this I don't want to spend time with you'. Similarly there's a big difference between 'when you argue like this it makes me sad' and 'you are making me ill'.

Which they will experience as a threat. That you are threatening to leave, threatening to lose the plot, because of things that they do that they are not in control of, is incredibly frightening and destabilising for them. There's no adult in the room. This is terrifying for small kids.
Reinforcing the message from others that you need urgent help to do this differently. Your children are not responsible for how you feel. You are because you're an adult.
I wish you well @ConfusedWriter08 , I can see that you're suffering.

You sound unbearable to be around, is there self awareness on your side on how your constant black mood , stressed state is fuelling their behaviour? Maybe they're anxious because you're shouting at them all the time about your "mental health".
Be an adult! Ffs

Hi OP. I have been in your position and it’s very very tough. My children would argue all day long and physically fight and hurt eachother. It really affected my mental health too. Nobody understands unless you’ve been in this position and it’s completely draining on the whole family. We eventually reached out to the school and other services for some help to manage their behaviour.
What it taught me though, as tough as it is to accept, is that a happy home starts from the parents. Both DH and I made a real (forced, at first) effort to be happy and positive, even if we didn’t feel like that inside. To engage with our children without constantly telling them off. We’ve worked hard on boundaries and anger management.
id suggest reading “How to talk to kids so they will listen” - some of the strategies in here really do work.
good luck - you will get there 💪

How much down time to they get without the other being there?

Imagine having to spend every moment of your personal life in close proximity with someone you just don’t get on with, or who actively grates on you with no prospect of it ever ending and no autonomy to get away from it. You’d never build up the resilience to cope with the others behaviour as you never get a break.

You’re not taking much responsibility for what that might be doing to their mental health (and is a direct result of your actions).

Do they have separate bedrooms? Can you ban them from each others bedroom and the consequence for arguing is to go and spend time separately in their rooms where they can’t see or hear each other for a while?

I think quality time apart might really help here - said as someone who did not and does not get on with her sibling.

They are children you are the adult you cannot put this on to them, just because they are siblings does not mean they will get along

If you need therapy to cope then do so but it it wrong to expect them to be responsible for your issues

Some of the replies here have been really harsh. The OP is struggling and is asking for help. There are ways of sharing information that isn't telling the OP that she is a shit parent and harmingl her children. I would find the constant fighting really, really hard, amd think I might have said something similar to the OP of I was desperate too. It was hardly her first tactic.

@Endofthetunnel25 seems to have good advice OP. I remember a previous thread about behaviour, and there was a lot of talk about positivity- the OP was at the end of her tether completely, but I member her saying that noticing and mentioning positive behaviour really did help (hard as it was).

Good luck.

I also think that strategies to simply keep them away from each other is a good idea.

@partygarden
Was there any need?
The kids sound unbearable; constant fighting, hitting that's not normal behaviour.
They're old enough to understand this so not acceptable.

I agree with other posters. It is completely inappropriate to make young children responsible for your MH. I would leave your MH out of it and work on behavioural strategies to limit quarrelling, including keeping them apart at times. I have to say that injuring one another as seriously as you imply sounds concerning. What does school say about their behaviour, separately?

They both get time with me and DH both separately and together most days. They have separate bedrooms, and if anything it’s gotten worse since they moved into separate rooms as DD is now very territorial about her bedroom. She’s almost ten, and she’s becoming very self aware and wants privacy, which is completely understandable, and which we’ve explained and DS tries to respect. But she screams if he so much as glances into her room as he passes it and that kicks off an argument every time. We’ve banned them from each others room several times, but then we end up with DD complaining that DS is singing loudly or playing music or making noise. She’s hyper reactive to him, and it’s incredibly difficult to deal with.